Menopause Hair Loss & Going Gray: Why Is My Confidence So Tied to My Hair?

Andrea Knoche (: 00:00

Have you ever been in the shower, looked down, and thought, where did all my hair go? Okay, that didn't sound right, you guys. I'm talking about the hair on the floor, down the

Junie Moon (: 00:10

Down the drain.

Karen Viesta (: 00:11

Ha ha ha

Andrea Knoche (: 00:12

drain. Let's

Laurie Gerber (: 00:12

Why is it there?

Andrea Knoche (: 00:13

clarify that one.

Junie Moon (: 00:14

Big club.

Andrea Knoche (: 00:16

Or maybe you've just noticed your part is getting a little wider, your ponytail is getting thinner. That's where I notice it. Or you're pulling more hair out of your brush than ever before.

And don't even get me started on those gray roots that pop in overnight. You're like, what? Where did that come from? Right. Nobody really prepares us for this part of menopause, I would say. We hear about the hot flashes, we hear about the night sweats, but no one really talks about what it feels like when your hair, something that has been such a big part of how you see yourself your entire life, all of a sudden starts changing too. Right. And let's be honest, you guys, it's not just about the hair.

Right. It's also about looking in the mirror and wondering, is this just my new normal? Is this me? Am I old now? Right. Like we're wondering all of those things. So we're also wondering, is it going to grow back? If there's anything I can do about it, should I be coloring it? Should I keep it silver gray? And maybe even starting to question your confidence or feeling like you're losing a little piece of yourself. Well, today we are talking all about all the things.

Hormonal changes behind hair loss, what actually works, what doesn't, and why so many women are feeling blindsided by this stage of life. Because if you've been finding extra hair in your shower lately, we want you to know one thing. You are definitely not alone. There are five of us right here that for sure are experiencing that. So just know you are not alone.

We've got the lovely ladies of the lounge here today, where everybody's hair looks fabulous. I'm just gonna say, thanks for showing up, ladies. I love it. We are all gonna join and talk about our personal reflections. We're gonna talk about the moment when we realized maybe something was changing with our hair and the surprising emotions that kind of came along with that, right? Like we it maybe made us feel different. I know it did for me, for sure. So let's get started. Juni, why don't you start us out? What's going on with your beautiful hair, girlfriend?

Junie Moon (: 02:12

Thank you.

Andrea Knoche (: 02:13

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 02:14

it's kind of ironic, not ironic. I went into the shower tonight and it was like this

Andrea Knoche (: 02:18

Ha ha.

Junie Moon (: 02:18

big clump of hair was just sitting there because

Karen Viesta (: 02:20

Ha ha ha.

Junie Moon (: 02:21

yesterday I moved it out of the drain and then I didn't take it out. I'm like perfect, you know. yeah, my hair, like

Andrea Knoche (: 02:26

yeah.

Junie Moon (: 02:29

people think I have a lot of hair because it's like all curly and it's it's it

Andrea Knoche (: 02:33

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 02:33

looks like I have a lot of hair, but I've always had thin hair. So it's curly

Andrea Knoche (: 02:37

I mean.

Junie Moon (: 02:38

but thin. And then what's happened and and it is like

Wow, talk about identity and really noticing how it's it's moving through me is yeah, I've lost a lot of hair and I continue to lose a lot of hair, especially in the last five years. I definitely think it's thyroid, you know, the hormones and all this stuff, but I'll be washing my hair and I'm like, it's in my fucking fingers

and or the

Andrea Knoche (: 03:00

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 03:01

or the brush and and and here's the thing for me, and you know, and this is just like vulnerable and whatever, I'm on video all the time.

Andrea Knoche (: 03:10

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 03:11

And so

Andrea Knoche (: 03:11

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 03:12

if I don't color my hair, I highlight my hair and I do like my hair lighter. I just do. But I hate being in the salon. I I absolutely

Andrea Knoche (: 03:21

Mm.

Junie Moon (: 03:21

am not one of those women that love it. I'm like, get me the get me out of here. But I highlight it because if I don't, if you look, it's like so I don't know if you could see it's so dark. I have such dark

Andrea Knoche (: 03:33

Yeah, it is.

Junie Moon (: 03:35

hair. And so when it's so dark, what do you see? You see so much of my scalp.

Laurie Gerber (: 03:40

Noooo

Junie Moon (: 03:40

And then you see

Andrea Knoche (: 03:40

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 03:41

the gray on my sides, and I look washed out on video,

Andrea Knoche (: 03:44

yeah.

Junie Moon (: 03:45

and it looks like I've lost so much hair and I'm practically bald. And and so, so you

Andrea Knoche (: 03:49

Mm.

Junie Moon (: 03:50

know, it's like like that's what it bothers me. And I and I have to be honest, it's like I'm gonna dye my hair until I go, fuck it, but I'm not there yet, because

Andrea Knoche (: 03:58

Ha ha ha.

Junie Moon (: 03:59

because I just I don't like how I look. And so it's confronting to me. And of course, you know, I love myself and all that stuff, but at the end of the day, I d I dye my hair because.

Because of this issue and it and it and

Andrea Knoche (: 04:12

Mm-hmm.

Junie Moon (: 04:12

it can be challenging and I I miss all my hair. I really do. I miss the the

Andrea Knoche (: 04:15

Yeah, yeah.

Junie Moon (: 04:18

the big poof, you know. The bulk. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 04:20

Yeah. Karen, are you at

the fuck it stage, Karen? Are you there yet?

Karen Viesta (: 04:25

I I'm far from the fuck it stage.

Laurie Gerber (: 04:25

She doesn't look like it.

Karen Viesta (: 04:28

I I I spend quite a lot of money on my hair. Like between

Andrea Knoche (: 04:32

Uh-huh.

Karen Viesta (: 04:34

the the cut and the coloring and the magic sleek to defrize it and the fancy blow dryer and the products and the you know, it's it's a huge expense, but you know, my hair journey was like I had my son, I'd love my children, but you know, my boobs and my hair, they just trashed them.

Laurie Gerber (: 04:53

Yeah,

Karen Viesta (: 04:53

Like I I had my son

Laurie Gerber (: 04:53

they treasure it. They do.

Karen Viesta (: 04:55

and my I was like, my hair's a little frizzier, you know, but I had that cute little baby boy, and then I had my daughter,

Andrea Knoche (: 04:58

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 04:58

Aww.

Karen Viesta (: 05:02

and again the

Andrea Knoche (: 05:02

Mm.

Karen Viesta (: 05:03

hair is like, mm, not looking so good, but I have this cute little girl. Then menopause, and I'm like, are you effing kidding me?

Laurie Gerber (: 05:10

Hahaha

Karen Viesta (: 05:11

like the frizz is so out of control that wearing it natural is not even an option. And

Andrea Knoche (: 05:19

Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 05:19

Juni, to to to speak to something you said.

I love this movement of you know women feeling confident, going gray. But what I what I will say is that A, you have to have the right hair texture. B, you have to have the right skin tone to wear gray. I I just

Andrea Knoche (: 05:38

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Junie Moon (: 05:39

So washed out. Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 05:41

don't think it is a good option for most women. I think there are some

Andrea Knoche (: 05:46

Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 05:46

women who wear it and they wear it beautifully and they rock it. You know.

Andrea Knoche (: 05:49

Is it Andy McDowell? I think it is Andy McDowell

Junie Moon (: 05:51

But

she's it's perfect

Andrea Knoche (: 05:52

that rocks it.

Junie Moon (: 05:53

for her.

Karen Viesta (: 05:53

Yeah.

But I I do think that for a lot of women, we just don't I don't view that as an option because on me, it just it doesn't look good and my hair is not the right texture. You know, I I I would look like one of those cartoon characters that stuck their finger in the socket

Andrea Knoche (: 06:10

Okay.

Karen Viesta (: 06:10

and like their hair it just wouldn't be a good look. You you don't

Laurie Gerber (: 06:12

We don't even know what your hair looks like, Karen. I've never seen your hair.

Dawn Wiggins (: 06:15

It sounds like it.

Karen Viesta (: 06:17

want to know what my natural hair looks like, trust me.

Laurie Gerber (: 06:18

hoping on our retreat I'll get to actually see your hair

the before and after.

Andrea Knoche (: 06:21

We get to see.

Karen Viesta (: 06:23

Not if I not if I can help it.

Laurie Gerber (: 06:25

come

on! What a good thumbnail it would make, the before and after. I'll show you mine.

Junie Moon (: 06:29

You you know,

I wanna hop back in here for a second because of something you said. It's like for most women it's not an option. And that kind of just hit my heart because where did it become not an option? It's like the standards, the so what we've been trained to think is an option or not, or good or not. And that's

Andrea Knoche (: 06:49

yeah.

Junie Moon (: 06:50

and that's still a a huge problem as I see it, that we're still bombarded with this looks good, but you don't.

You know,

Karen Viesta (: 06:59

Juni,

don't you think I

Andrea Knoche (: 06:59

Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 07:00

I'm I'm I'm gonna clarify it. I think

Junie Moon (: 07:03

Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 07:03

it goes back to when we look in the mirror and we see an image of ourselves that is so far away from how we feel, that's very jarring. And when when

Junie Moon (: 07:10

Different. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 07:14

Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 07:14

I look in the mirror, I want to see someone who in my eyes looks vibrant and healthy

Junie Moon (: 07:20

Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 07:21

and and I don't feel that way when

Junie Moon (: 07:23

No.

Karen Viesta (: 07:23

my gray is coming in and my hair is all frizzy. You know, like I think there is an element of

Women at, you know, fifty-five, fifty-seven, sixty-seven, you know, we just feel young and and still wanna look young. There there is that

Andrea Knoche (: 07:39

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 07:39

But

Karen Viesta (: 07:39

desire, right?

Junie Moon (: 07:40

but doesn't that come back to a belief that when we're gray, we're not vibrant? I mean, if we didn't have that belief, it'd be a natural progression of, now I'm gray. I mean, this is just how I think it as

Karen Viesta (: 07:54

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 07:55

I've been indoctrinated to think if I'm gray, if I'm losing hair, it's not I'm not as vibrant or youthful versus

Karen Viesta (: 08:01

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 08:03

this is just where I'm at right now.

And it's totally fine. And I know I'm vibrant and I know I'm useful. I I still think it's a it's a thinking problem, if you will. But I'm with you. I'm a hundred percent

Andrea Knoche (: 08:12

Yeah. Image. Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 08:13

It's a mind bender. I also, I've, I.

Karen Viesta (: 08:12

Yeah. Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 08:17

with you. I get it.

Karen Viesta (: 08:18

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 08:19

think that

Andrea Knoche (: 08:19

Go hilary.

Laurie Gerber (: 08:20

effort also communicates something. Like the self-care effort. Like when you see Karen, you're like, that woman put in effort. Like she did something this morning to show up for us in a particular way

Andrea Knoche (: 08:28

Effort, yeah. Mm-hmm, mm hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 08:30

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 08:31

Yes, your hair always looks great.

Laurie Gerber (: 08:33

where it's very, and to me, kind of like the epitome of attraction is that you're actually not distracting. Like you're just kind of pleasant, right? Like you're just, you're,

Andrea Knoche (: 08:42

Mm. Blending. Mm-hmm.

Junie Moon (: 08:43

Mm.

Laurie Gerber (: 08:46

like a beautiful sunset, right? Like there's

Junie Moon (: 08:50

Mm.

Laurie Gerber (: 08:50

a way in which I think if we just let things wild, right? Like I'm watching my lawn, right? Like I've got a part that's wild and natural and a part that's groomed and kept. And

Andrea Knoche (: 08:59

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 09:01

they are both very different looks that evoke very different feelings and experiences. And I do think a lot of what beauty standards are, like if we just break it down is like when I see someone who's made an effort like to

build their muscles and have good posture or to tame, quote unquote, their hair or to put on makeup or to get good lighting on their face or whatever it is. There's a way in which as the viewer, as the gazer, I go, wow, that person cared about my experience and cared about themselves. So I have this

Junie Moon (: 09:36

Mm.

Laurie Gerber (: 09:36

experience of like, I'm kind of impressed with this person because they clearly care. This person demonstrates

Andrea Knoche (: 09:40

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 09:41

some integrity to their own self-care that

Junie Moon (: 09:42

Make the effort. Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 09:45

registers as beauty to me or put togetherness to me. Anyway, my two cents.

Andrea Knoche (: 09:49

Mm.

Junie Moon (: 09:49

Yeah, it's another

Andrea Knoche (: 09:50

Mm.

Junie Moon (: 09:50

piece of it. Absolutely.

Andrea Knoche (: 09:52

Mm. What about you, Lori? Where are you at? You used to have long hair, did you not? Mm. Mm-hmm. I think it was longer. Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 09:57

Yes, my hair was a lot like Dawn's. Long and I don't know,

my hair has been at least this long. It's been different, different

Andrea Knoche (: 10:05

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 10:06

lengths. And I would always just put it in a ponytail. Cause my thing was like, I just don't want to deal with it. I was very anti-vanity. And then quote unquote, I'll put that in quotes. And then the vanity in quotes, not the anti-vanity in quotes. And then

Junie Moon (: 10:19

What do you?

Laurie Gerber (: 10:20

in my mid forties, I started to be on camera a lot.

And my coworkers, and I'm still a little scarred by this, my coworkers were from a much more vain context in their growing up. And they did Botox from a young age and facelifts and biweekly trips to the salon and lots of different beauty care routines

Andrea Knoche (: 10:42

Mm.

Laurie Gerber (: 10:43

that I was just like, who has time for that? I'm not interested. I don't care. And lucky me, I still look cute and young and didn't feel I had to.

And then they kind of took over. And because I was representing the company and was the face of the company, I had an incredibly large amount of input on everything I wore, how I did my makeup, how I did my hair, how I showed up on camera. And I became, it became clear to me the difference, right? Like what the difference

Andrea Knoche (: 11:09

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 11:10

was of not caring and caring. A lot of it I liked and decided, you know, I want to keep this because I like how it looks. I like how it feels. I like the response I'm getting.

But a couple years ago, my husband was like, I'd like to see your natural hair color. Like I like you the way you are. I would like to see it go back to, you know, rewild your hair. And I did that and two things happened that I did not like. One was I had a client say, don't do that again. A male client just be like, don't do that again. It makes you look old. Right? What makes you look old and bad,

Andrea Knoche (: 11:45

Mm.

Laurie Gerber (: 11:47

right? Whatever.

And

I should not care, right? I know I should not care and I know his opinion's not, you know, whatever. doesn't, shouldn't drive me, but it was like, so just some clear feedback that it is not imperceptible, it's perceptible and it registers as a thing. And the second thing was the kind of styling I like to do that makes me feel put together with my hair was no longer possible without the dyeing because texture, as you said, Karen, I never understood about texture. didn't understand that the texture of your hair could change. I didn't understand that that would

impact how I style it. still feel like, boy, do I not want to put any time into this. This does not seem like a good use of my time. But I have kind of succumbed to a routine of regular visits,

Andrea Knoche (: 12:29

Mm.

Laurie Gerber (: 12:30

regular hair dyeing, so that I can have an easy time every morning, creating a look that is OK enough for me to go in front of clients or go on camera with.

Andrea Knoche (: 12:43

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 12:43

And I don't think it's going to change anytime soon.

At least not while I'm on camera a lot. But meanwhile, like

Andrea Knoche (: 12:48

Mm. Mm. Oops cute.

Laurie Gerber (: 12:52

when I go out in public, just so everybody knows, I wear a hat and earmuffs. So it's like, this is my camera face. This is not how I look in real life. In real life, I literally, I'm in sunglasses, a hat and earmuffs when I'm outside. So nobody could tell if I'm pretty, even if they wanted to. And nobody sees my hair

Karen Viesta (: 13:09

He

Andrea Knoche (: 13:10

All I

Laurie Gerber (: 13:11

and nobody cares about my hair. So this is all for you, YouTube. This is all for you.

Karen Viesta (: 13:15

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 13:17

and for my clients. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 13:19

And for your clients. Do you think cutting

your hair off short, a lot of people relate when people cut their hair off short? Like that is, we're getting older. Yeah, because it's it's often related that to that, right? When they've had

Laurie Gerber (: 13:26

It was a moment. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Andrea Knoche (: 13:31

long hair and everything and then they cut it short, it it becomes a she's like an old person now. She doesn't want to do it. She just wants to have yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 13:36

And my husband really didn't like it. He was like,

there was a loss of femininity to that. Cause he was remembering his college sweetheart

Andrea Knoche (: 13:44

That's another thing, yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 13:45

with the ponytail and

Andrea Knoche (: 13:47

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 13:48

it is youth and femininity. And so I was more put together, but it definitely made me feel older and less feminine.

Andrea Knoche (: 13:56

Yeah.

Interesting.

Junie Moon (: 13:58

You know, I once

cut my hair pretty not short, short, but like people are used to this. And this is kind of how I look. And I put a lot of work into this, by the way. but anyway, a lot of product,

Andrea Knoche (: 14:06

Ha ha ha.

Junie Moon (: 14:08

otherwise, but I I did, I did a real like back to front short. And it was

Andrea Knoche (: 14:13

Mm-hmm.

Junie Moon (: 14:14

not about feeling old to me. I actually felt free. It was like, wow, I just cut my hair

Andrea Knoche (: 14:18

Mm. A lot of people feel that.

Junie Moon (: 14:20

off because there was a I don't care kind of thing. I wasn't attached to the

Andrea Knoche (: 14:24

Hm.

Junie Moon (: 14:25

look anymore.

And I just had less to do. But what I didn't

Andrea Knoche (: 14:29

Mm.

Junie Moon (: 14:29

like about it is it doesn't last long, which means I have to go get cut again. And again, I hate the salon. So

Andrea Knoche (: 14:33

Yeah, maintenance.

Laurie Gerber (: 14:33

Exactly.

Junie Moon (: 14:35

I'm like, long. Just keep it long. Maintenance. Yeah, I hate maintenance. It's so annoying. Yeah. Mm mm.

Laurie Gerber (: 14:37

Right.

Andrea Knoche (: 14:37

Yeah, yeah. Maintenance, maintenance, maintenance. Yes.

I've always had my hair. well, I'm I'm half Jamaican. So I feel like some of my hair comes from, you know, my mom has that had that really coarse, very thin hair, you know, and and so it's and it's always it's very frizzy, actually. It's a lot like Karen, if you just want me to come out of the shower, it's like and it was always then it didn't grow.

hardly

ever grew. I could not cut it for three years. And it would be like, I'm like, yep, still there. It just didn't do anything. And so then I started getting extensions. And so I had hair extensions. And a lot of people didn't even know that because I got some really great ones that blended and for like 15 years I had hair extensions. But what a toll that was taking on my hair because they were attached, you know, so then it's

Laurie Gerber (: 15:25

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 15:25

it's pulling out there too. So I would was constantly, you know, still pulling out hair and then I'm freaking out because I'm like, is that my

Own hairs at extensions. And then I'm like, how am I ever going to get rid of these extensions? Cause I don't know what's underneath now, you know?

Laurie Gerber (: 15:38

Right.

Andrea Knoche (: 15:39

So that was really scary. And so about I don't know, two months ago, I got rid of the extensions for the first time in 15 years. And I was, I know I was terrified to do it because I didn't know what it was going to look like. And well, this is my real hair, ladies.

Laurie Gerber (: 15:52

Here it is.

Karen Viesta (: 15:53

Looks amazing.

Dawn Wiggins (: 15:53

Beautiful.

Andrea Knoche (: 15:55

I was really shocked, but there was

Junie Moon (: 15:54

Nice.

Andrea Knoche (: 15:58

It it was really shocking for me and almost like a revelation for me, like, was it all in my mind? Was this just me like, you know, being so vain and thinking

Laurie Gerber (: 16:06

Yep.

Andrea Knoche (: 16:07

there's no way, like I have to have this luxurious hair, you know, or the guys aren't gonna like me without this hair. And, you know, and it was difficult because like, how do you pull extensions during sex? That's hard, you know, at times. And so I had to be really careful with it. But now it is so free. I can't even tell you how different it feels to not.

Laurie Gerber (: 16:24

Yeah, freeing, literally.

Andrea Knoche (: 16:27

It is so freeing to not

Laurie Gerber (: 16:28

Yeah, you're...

Andrea Knoche (: 16:29

have because when you put your hair up in a point also with extensions,

Dawn Wiggins (: 16:31

To manage. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 16:32

you can often see, you know, all the clips. So so

Laurie Gerber (: 16:34

Right.

Andrea Knoche (: 16:35

then, you know,

Junie Moon (: 16:35

Mm.

Andrea Knoche (: 16:36

somebody's in line behind you and you're thinking, they're looking at my hair. You know what I mean? It's it's such a mind fuck, really, of all that stuff.

Laurie Gerber (: 16:42

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 16:43

Mm-hmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 16:43

And so getting rid of those has just been awesome. And then just

You know, trying to use different products of like different oils and stuff. I there was some concoction that I saw a woman make on Instagram and she does it every couple months of all these different like agave oil and different things that she puts in. And then she puts it on her head and she wraps it in like a heated bonnet and just sits with it for two hours and then she washes it out. And I mean, she was like, and this is my new hair. And it was so bouncy. I mean, granted, it's Instagram, I know where it's a little bit different than probably mine was, but I

attribute that to like I it's gotten healthier in the last two months and been growing. So I'm gonna I'm gonna

Laurie Gerber (: 17:18

Nice.

Andrea Knoche (: 17:19

take it for what it is. I'm gonna take it. And I also wanted to add that, you know, I had a date with a man that actually mentioned about a woman that he went out with that in her photos on her profile was all, you know, darker hair and she showed up to the date fully gray. Now, I would never have done that because I think that's a little deceiving to do that. Yes, exactly.

Dawn Wiggins (: 17:39

Right, is that a catfish? Mm-hmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 17:42

But

and he said immediately he was like turned off by that because he then he had also dated a woman previously. That's what he told me that had been in menopause and she talked about it a lot during the date. And so that became a bit of a turnoff for him. And and I understand that because we've talked about menopause and how, you know, when you get dried up down there, you're dealing with the hot flashes, it has this stigma with it, right? Like,

She's old and and dried up, right? Like that's how they kind of think of it. And so he related then all of a sudden this woman with the fully gray hair to being that. And he's like, So I stopped dating women like older women. And I was like, this is fascinating. We're not a match, but you were so gonna be on the podcast.

Karen Viesta (: 18:22

Right.

Dawn Wiggins (: 18:23

Case study. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 18:25

I know I use it all as data now. but

Junie Moon (: 18:27

Ha ha ha!

Karen Viesta (: 18:28

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 18:29

it was really, really interesting to hear that perspective.

And I actually took the opportunity to bring up that 72% of men don't really know what's going on with women in their bodies during menopause. Thank you, Karen, for those stats one time. And

Karen Viesta (: 18:41

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 18:43

I brought that up to him. And I wasn't trying to shame him, but I was also like, But do you even understand like what we as women are going through? It's easy for you to sit there on the sideline

Dawn Wiggins (: 18:52

He didn't give a shit. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 18:54

and be like, your hair's gray, or you're gonna talk to me about your hot flashes and your thing. Well, I'm sorry, but that is our life from

Late thirties to sixties. So that conversation is gonna

Karen Viesta (: 19:03

Yeah. And guess what?

Laurie Gerber (: 19:04

my life.

Andrea Knoche (: 19:05

come up.

Karen Viesta (: 19:06

Half the men online are bald. If we ruled them out, we'd have nobody to date.

Andrea Knoche (: 19:11

my god, right? You are so right. Or bald when they have like the pages here and nothing here or nothing here and this is side combed. What?

Karen Viesta (: 19:17

I mean w women don't immediately,

you know, I I don't get me started.

Andrea Knoche (: 19:21

Yeah, yeah,

exactly. Don't get me started. And so it's I just wanted to bring that up because it's very interesting, the perception out there. And it's it's hard to keep up with it. And so again, just go back to like be you, be what feels right to you and what looks good to you. And you know, if being fully graped makes you feel vibrant and alive, but you're still youthful inside, great, go for it. Dawn, what do you got with that? The time you say there there's that. Yes.

Laurie Gerber (: 19:44

and the time you save, right? It's a time, right? It's a time thing too. And the money,

Dawn Wiggins (: 19:46

The time he spent it.

Karen Viesta (: 19:46

Yeah. And the money.

Laurie Gerber (: 19:50

yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 19:50

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 19:51

And the money done.

Dawn Wiggins (: 19:52

my word, I could go so many directions with hair, but it starts when let's say I was like, I don't know, twelve, fourteen, and I had a girlfriend for a sleepover and my mom walked past my room with the door was open and she was still asleep in the bed. And then I walked into the kitchen and she was like, I d you know, and I was like, What? And she said, Well, I just walked by your room and I saw your hair in the pillow and I was like, Wow, that's beautiful

Andrea Knoche (: 20:16

Hmm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 20:17

hair and I was like, you know, yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 20:21

Perception.

Laurie Gerber (: 20:21

Thanks.

Dawn Wiggins (: 20:21

Like it's

still in me, right? Like that's what comes up when I yeah, yeah, yeah. So

Andrea Knoche (: 20:23

Yeah. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 20:26

but what I have experienced most of my life is never having really like quote air quotes good hair. And

Andrea Knoche (: 20:33

Mm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 20:34

hair health is very much tied to nervous system health, to thyroid, to right, glandular health, to mental health, to right

Andrea Knoche (: 20:43

Mm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 20:43

like robustness of health in general.

And you know, we all know we've heard me once, we've heard me a million times say that I've been working through chronic illness through a good portion of my life. And so the time in my life that I had the best hair, which was different than your experience, Karen, is fascinating. So when I was pregnant with my daughter, I had like this like glam movie star hair, and it lasted for probably two years postpartum, and it was unbelievable.

Andrea Knoche (: 21:09

Wow.

Dawn Wiggins (: 21:11

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 21:12

Wow.

Dawn Wiggins (: 21:13

my daughter has

so much hair. It's like she gave me her hair energy

Karen Viesta (: 21:17

Ha ha.

Dawn Wiggins (: 21:18

while I was pregnant with her. It was

correct.

Andrea Knoche (: 21:20

And then took it back.

Karen Viesta (: 21:21

That's awesome.

Dawn Wiggins (: 21:22

Took it back. Well, right. Then I crashed. Forget about it. Right. Then it all fell out. And you know,

Andrea Knoche (: 21:25

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 21:27

sometimes we talk about like just in the world of healing and in general, like, when is enough enough? When do I know that like I've

Andrea Knoche (: 21:33

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 21:33

put I've done enough work? Air quotes again, right? And for me, the hair metric is part of it because I understand that our mental health and our physical health are so intrinsically linked.

And my hair is

Andrea Knoche (: 21:44

Mm-hmm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 21:44

no longer in a clump in the shower. and

Andrea Knoche (: 21:47

Mm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 21:48

my hairdresser, sh you know, I said to her recently, like, I'm expecting big hair things this year, and she's like, I am too, because I've put so much energy into rebuilding my vital force. Now, that said, I cannot imagine letting myself go gray. and I was raised by a mom who did not value beauty standards at all, not even one percent. And so I was never

I never grew up with product or, you know, proper tools or any of that, right? So anything that I do, which is very little with my hair, has sort of been infused into me by hairdressers or girlfriends or that kind of stuff. So I'm very like minimal with my

Andrea Knoche (: 22:29

Uh-huh.

Dawn Wiggins (: 22:30

with my effort. but I can't imagine letting it go completely gray. I think that would feel very distressing to me. That said, well and part of that, like y'all know I've talked about wanting to be pregnant again and all, I can't imagine

having a child in perimenopause and menopause and then that what

Andrea Knoche (: 22:47

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 22:48

they would go through having a mom who's full on gray, I think that's a whole stigma. And so I can acknowledge

Andrea Knoche (: 22:52

Yeah. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 22:54

all of this stuff, but I also know that one of the definitions of addiction is the chronic narrowing of pathways that bring us pleasure. And so what

Andrea Knoche (: 23:04

Mm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 23:05

are we saying when we're like, I can only love myself or like find myself attractive when it fits within these parameters of

Makeup, hair care, skincare, you know you name it, right? Like and

Andrea Knoche (: 23:15

Mm, mm-hmm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 23:17

I am keenly aware of how literally addicted we are to being

Andrea Knoche (: 23:23

Crazy.

Dawn Wiggins (: 23:23

young to being young. And that's a problem because aging is inevitable. And so I think there's gonna be a world reckoning, you know, in general for us at some point. We're all kind of

Junie Moon (: 23:33

Unless you're at Jane Fonda, man.

Karen Viesta (: 23:37

Who

still colors her hair? Who's still coloring

Andrea Knoche (: 23:37

Or Martha Stewart, I just saw yesterday.

Karen Viesta (: 23:40

their hair, right?

Dawn Wiggins (: 23:42

Yeah, but the reality is is we reach for those

Laurie Gerber (: 23:42

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 23:42

Tchau.

Dawn Wiggins (: 23:44

standards and not all of us have the same plastic surgeon or the b abil you know what I mean? Like it's they're yeah, no, they're un

Andrea Knoche (: 23:47

Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 23:47

Right, right, right. It's true.

Junie Moon (: 23:47

Or the money.

Dawn Wiggins (: 23:50

they're like unreasonable standards that we're holding ourselves to and I don't think we can be in denial that it takes a real toll on our self concept. Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 23:54

Exactly. It's exhausting. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 24:00

and yeah. Yeah. That's it. What I got.

Andrea Knoche (: 23:59

Hmm, yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah.

All right. Thanks for sharing that, ladies. And I do want to add that depending on when you watch this, it's either out or coming out, that we are going to have a fabulous episode and talking about all of our obsessions and favorite things we do. And so that's a really great opportunity to hear. We're going to hear all about maybe Karen and what she does with her hair, her essentials that she needs to have, our different products that we love, all that good stuff.

Dawn Wiggins (: 24:22

Dave products, yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 24:26

think that's gonna already be out when this comes out, actually. Go back and watch.

Andrea Knoche (: 24:29

Yes, it very well. Might be, so go

Karen Viesta (: 24:30

Maybe.

Andrea Knoche (: 24:32

and check that one out.

Junie Moon (: 24:32

Yeah, we'll put the link in the show notes. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 24:35

Gotta get the goods, the goods. Karen, speaking of the goods, what you got for us?

Karen Viesta (: 24:38

Yep.

So once again, our conversations spot on. Women will

Andrea Knoche (: 24:43

We're right on

Karen Viesta (: 24:45

say it's not just hair. You know, it's not just about the hair, which plays into ever

Andrea Knoche (: 24:48

Mm-hmm. It's who they are.

Karen Viesta (: 24:51

to everything that we've been talking about. up to two-thirds of post-menopausal women are struggling with hair thinning and hair loss. And

You know, of course, dermat you know, as Dawn said earlier, there are other things that women need to be aware of. So when you're finding clumps in the shower, you know, it could be an issue with your thyroid. It could be iron deficiency, nutritional deficiencies, autoimmune stuff. Like it's definitely something that is worth seeing a dermatologist about. So I'll I'll say that, you know, sort of at the outset. Or a homeopath, or better yet, a homeopath.

Andrea Knoche (: 25:23

Mm-hmm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 25:24

Or a homeopath and not a dermatologist at all, actually. Or

Laurie Gerber (: 25:27

you

Andrea Knoche (: 25:30

Send

Dawn Wiggins (: 25:30

a functional doc or a you know, yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 25:30

them this way.

Karen Viesta (: 25:32

Yeah,

but but it's it's worth having it looked into. But, you know, it is just an unfortunate reality of aging and, you know, hormonal changes and whatnot, but it seriously impacts women's self-esteem and body image and sexual confidence and and just overall quality of life. And the the data on that is undeniable. So it truly isn't just about hair, you know, as as we've shared, it's very much tied.

To mental health and nervous system and all the other stuff. So, you know, I

Andrea Knoche (: 26:04

Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 26:05

don't, I don't, it's interesting that we all experience this. I don't know that any of us have any real answers. Personally, I feel very called out by Dawn, because

Andrea Knoche (: 26:13

Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 26:14

I think my nervous system must be shit if I'm basing basing my assessment on the state of my hair. But but yeah, I it's it's a complete picture, right? I guess it's just like we've said in so many of our previous episodes, like it's

It's the whole person. So all of the things we're doing in terms of lifestyle and boundaries and mental health and you know, it plays into every part of us, including our hair, apparently. Okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 26:40

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

But that also gives me the question that I was going to ask, Karen. Is there anything really wrong with wanting to look younger? I mean, we all kind of, yeah,

Junie Moon (: 26:50

It's just gonna go there. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 26:52

we do. And do we need to stop apologizing for those choices that we make about our appearances? You know, I mean, some of us just like that. Or if we want, you know, whatever it might be, we want bigger boobs, we got a boob job. Well, that's, you know, that is the whole thing, we're trying to conform to something out there for everybody to see us a certain way. But

Is there anything really wrong with that too sometimes? You just want

Laurie Gerber (: 27:13

Well,

Andrea Knoche (: 27:13

to feel younger and look younger.

Laurie Gerber (: 27:15

there's no such thing as we just like that.

Andrea Knoche (: 27:17

Just, just.

Laurie Gerber (: 27:19

There's no such thing. We're being inculcated from before we're even born. there's

Andrea Knoche (: 27:24

Mm, yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 27:26

no just, anytime you just like something, you should just ask yourself, but why? But why? Why do I just like that? Doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, right? Like, cause you

Andrea Knoche (: 27:32

Why? Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 27:36

know me, I believe in that joy, joy trade-off business, right?

Andrea Knoche (: 27:40

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 27:42

And that's, think joy is really important. It might be the most important thing. So that's not a prescription,

Andrea Knoche (: 27:47

Yeah. And what brings that, yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 27:49

but I don't think we should pretend like we just like something.

Karen Viesta (: 27:53

And and I do

Andrea Knoche (: 27:54

Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 27:54

believe that what Dawn said is actually worth mentioning again. We are narrowing the scope of joy, right? Of what joy means for

Andrea Knoche (: 28:03

Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 28:04

us, of what brings us joy and happiness. Every time we embody one of these, these doctrines that somebody else told us, like long vibrant hair is youth. You know, every time we

Andrea Knoche (: 28:17

Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 28:18

believe that and we act on that, we are sort of narrowing that.

that lens a little bit. So it I, you know, I'm not I'm not necessarily changing my approach to my hair at the moment. But

Andrea Knoche (: 28:32

Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 28:32

I think this conversation is good. And Dawn, I love that you said that because it will make, you know, it will make me question, as you said, Lori, why why I'm doing what I'm

Andrea Knoche (: 28:42

Aye.

Karen Viesta (: 28:42

doing.

Dawn Wiggins (: 28:43

No, I hear you. I'm listening I'm basing my whole like am I I'm only done healing when my hair is thick and full. Like I I'm in on the joke, right? Because

Karen Viesta (: 28:52

Right.

Dawn Wiggins (: 28:53

I used to like Juni, like just a few years ago, like I could see literally, like I could almost count how many little follicles there were and dark hair, light scalp, right? It was like I was devastated, absolutely devastated.

Andrea Knoche (: 29:05

Mm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 29:07

but I'm also not someone who's willing to like

that that's not a reality I'm willing to accept, right? And so probably I like take a particular amount of effort to get my hair healthy. I just probably come at it at a different angle than a lot of people do.

Andrea Knoche (: 29:22

Mm-hmm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 29:23

because I d I d I want it to be naturally healthy and yeah, thick and lush and all the things. And yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 29:29

Yeah.

Yeah. Laurie.

Laurie Gerber (: 29:31

Can I just, I just want to, I want to go back to subject

and I want to bring up another subject. But the subject I want to go back to is I think one of the, one of the ways to get that balance or that like place in between the two extremes of just like, have to look a certain way and the I don't care club is, is

Andrea Knoche (: 29:49

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 29:51

trying different things, right? Like actually

Andrea Knoche (: 29:53

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 29:53

testing your assumption, testing your assumption about what will people think, testing your assumption about how will I feel, testing your assumption about what is this? So.

I

am very glad I tested letting my gray grow

Andrea Knoche (: 30:03

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 30:03

in. I am very glad I tested long hair. am, by the way, I would put the ponytail up and then I would, my hair was thinning because I was, it was great. So like I tested

Andrea Knoche (: 30:12

Say.

Laurie Gerber (: 30:12

long hair, I tested short hair, I tested very short hair, I tested, I shaved my head at one point. Like, so I've tested a lot of different beauty, yeah. There are very few,

Andrea Knoche (: 30:20

What? Wait, what? Yes, tell us more.

Dawn Wiggins (: 30:20

Wow We want pictures.

Laurie Gerber (: 30:25

if any, that exist from that era because I,

Junie Moon (: 30:26

I've thought of doing that. Mm-hmm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 30:29

Was it a Britney Spears moment?

Andrea Knoche (: 30:29

Like a buzz cut?

Dawn Wiggins (: 30:30

Like what happened?

Laurie Gerber (: 30:31

No, it was before, it

Andrea Knoche (: 30:32

Tell us.

Laurie Gerber (: 30:33

was the 90s. Will and I did it together. My husband and I both shaved our heads together, but it was in the stage of beauty standards where my answer to beauty standards was like, fuck that. Like, no, no.

Dawn Wiggins (: 30:44

Mm-hmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 30:44

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 30:45

My armpit hair was longer than my head hair. And I thought that was the right statement to be making. And

Andrea Knoche (: 30:49

Spraying it.

Dawn Wiggins (: 30:50

Bravo.

Laurie Gerber (: 30:52

again, I come from a privileged position, right? Because I was partnered. I didn't care what anyone thought. I wasn't a public figure.

there was a lot of room for me to do that experiment. And I don't think everyone feels the same room that I felt, but I still want to

Andrea Knoche (: 31:06

Mm.

Laurie Gerber (: 31:07

say that if you are, if you're like, if your values don't feel aligned with your practice, which is I think what we're all grappling with right now, like are my practices aligned with my values? When I call personal integrity, one of the interim steps you can take is small experiments to see, are my assumptions correct about?

how I'm gonna feel

Junie Moon (: 31:27

No.

Laurie Gerber (: 31:28

and be perceived. Like you did, Andrea, but I like, well, let me see what life is without these extensions. I was like, my gosh, how about

Andrea Knoche (: 31:31

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 31:34

that?

Andrea Knoche (: 31:35

Well, and we think people care more than they do. Like I'm so worried about everybody being like, you know, her hair's different and like nobody does. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 31:39

That's a learning. Right. I had the opposite experience, but then I'm also

taking one client's response versus perhaps the hundreds of clients who would

have been like, yay, Lori, we're so empowered by the fact that you went great. Because eventually I'm gonna, right? Like I'm eventually, I'm

Andrea Knoche (: 31:53

Yeah. Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 31:55

not going to think that time is worth it anymore. I'm just not. And because I don't even believe in it, right? I'm,

Andrea Knoche (: 31:59

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 32:00

I'm really, I'm just following a very temporary set

Andrea Knoche (: 32:05

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 32:05

of principles. Now I want to talk about the hair down there.

Can

we change the subject to that? Okay, because, okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 32:09

Yes, or lack thereof, maybe. And eyebrows. Yes.

Dawn Wiggins (: 32:11

Well and eyebrows. And eyebrows.

Junie Moon (: 32:13

Mm.

Laurie Gerber (: 32:15

So what can I expect going forward? Does anyone know? It's a vulva, first of all, the outside is the vulva. We're not talking about vaginas, vaginas, the inside. But right now, still quite

Andrea Knoche (: 32:20

Well let me see your vagina, Florey. Let me see your revolver.

Laurie Gerber (: 32:31

hairy down there. Vibrant, vibrant bush. But what's the,

Andrea Knoche (: 32:33

Okay. Hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 32:36

I under,

Junie Moon (: 32:35

Well, I haven't seen a lot

of pussies lately, so

Andrea Knoche (: 32:38

Does

Karen Viesta (: 32:39

Ha ha ha.

Junie Moon (: 32:41

talk about should we just shoo for the legs wide open right now?

Laurie Gerber (: 32:41

Is it not being discussed? Yeah, let's get our legs

Andrea Knoche (: 32:43

Well, yeah, I mean,

Laurie Gerber (: 32:45

wide open.

Andrea Knoche (: 32:45

yeah,

that's a great question that people always ask. Does the carpet match the drapes? Right. But if and sometimes, I mean, for me, I I'm hardwood floor. Like, like, while there's a thing though too is that I

Laurie Gerber (: 32:56

Right, you have no hair, this is an irrelevant question. That's interesting.

Junie Moon (: 32:58

I totally would have guessed that.

Andrea Knoche (: 33:04

well, actually I'm kind of getting back into the phase of it, but like I went through this phase where I was like, I would completely shave down there.

And I liked it, felt it was very hygienic. It was very, you know, it looked good and everything. But I did find out that some seemed to relate that to a schoolgirl, that a little child. And I was like,

Laurie Gerber (: 33:22

Yes. It is literally what a child's bubble looks like.

Andrea Knoche (: 33:27

and I was like, ooh, I didn't want that. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 33:26

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Well, yeah. Well,

but and also if you think about where hair is on our body, except maybe our heads, I don't know about our heads, but like our eyelashes, our eyebrows inside of our noses, like hair is there for a reason. It's protective. It's

Laurie Gerber (: 33:39

purpose.

Andrea Knoche (: 33:40

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 33:40

part of our immune system, right? To keep certain things out, to keep certain things in. And so I would think I have no

Not enough education to speak on this, but I do think hair thins in many places when hair is thinning, including eyebrows and all these other places. But I do think if it's supposed to be there to be part of our immune system, probably it will always be there to an extent. Now, as I have regrown my hair, I have regrown my eyebrows also. I was one of those over over waxers in the nineties. And then for all of the nervous system things, right? Like they just stayed thin and got thinner and thinner and thinner. So they are filling in

Beautifully, I would argue. Also, my eyelashes are longer than they've ever been. So I

Laurie Gerber (: 34:25

Interesting.

Dawn Wiggins (: 34:25

hope that women can hear, right? I am the baby of the group. So I will acknowledge that. At 46, this is the healthiest my eyebrows, my eyelashes, my hair has

Andrea Knoche (: 34:35

Mm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 34:36

ever been, and I don't have any changes in my bush either. So you know, things are possible that maybe you've been taught aren't possible. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:41

Yeah. It can start back up. Yeah.

So Lori

Laurie Gerber (: 34:46

Well, I've heard the

bush thins with age. That's what I've heard. Just put...

Andrea Knoche (: 34:51

Probably does.

Dawn Wiggins (: 34:49

Probably. That's what I'm guessing. Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 34:49

Mine has. Def mine definitely

Dawn Wiggins (: 34:52

Mm-hmm.

Junie Moon (: 34:52

has. I

never had a big bush. I was bush envy, actually. I I always

Andrea Knoche (: 34:56

Ha ha ha.

Junie Moon (: 34:57

remember in

Dawn Wiggins (: 34:57

Fascinating.

Junie Moon (: 34:58

high school there was this this friend of mine. I was like, wow, that is so not how I look. but I've never had a lot

Laurie Gerber (: 35:05

fascinating.

Junie Moon (: 35:05

of hair. but it's definitely thin. There's definitely some gray, and I don't give a shit. But I will say that when I was married, and I don't know if you guys even know this, but there was a time, actually a large

part of our relationship that was an open relationship. And we would go to swingers parties and I would see a lot of things. And I noticed that

Laurie Gerber (: 35:25

Slada Bush!

Junie Moon (: 35:26

every I got, I saw a lot of bush or lack thereof at, you know, you

Andrea Knoche (: 35:30

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 35:30

Bye.

Junie Moon (: 35:31

know, the the bare floor. And so I went through a stage of, gosh, that's what's in. Again, I

Laurie Gerber (: 35:36

Right.

Junie Moon (: 35:37

was much younger. And I'm like, I I better do that or I'm not going to be wanted because that's where my brain was at. So I went complete.

Laurie Gerber (: 35:41

Mmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 35:42

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Junie Moon (: 35:45

It was different. It was a very interesting experience and sensation, but I felt like a little kid. And ultimately

Andrea Knoche (: 35:52

Yeah, yeah.

Junie Moon (: 35:53

I got to a place where I was like, you know

Laurie Gerber (: 35:55

Hmm

Junie Moon (: 35:55

what? I don't feel sexy. I don't like how it

Andrea Knoche (: 35:58

Mm.

Junie Moon (: 35:59

feels. I like to have some hair.

Laurie Gerber (: 36:00

Interesting.

Junie Moon (: 36:02

And Shari Winston, who is the ultimate expert on sex and bodies and what is going on with our pussy, like pussy pleasure. I remember, and this was like decades ago, I remember her saying.

hair is going to give you sensation and pleasure that

Laurie Gerber (: 36:18

Mmm.

Junie Moon (: 36:19

you cannot have without it. The rubbing, the

Karen Viesta (: 36:22

I don't know.

Junie Moon (: 36:23

lightness. So so there's a lot of things I've discovered.

Andrea Knoche (: 36:24

This is where my big O has been

Dawn Wiggins (: 36:24

Pantria.

Laurie Gerber (: 36:24

Ooh, Andrea,

Karen Viesta (: 36:26

Wow.

Andrea Knoche (: 36:26

all this all these years.

Dawn Wiggins (: 36:26

Pantria.

Laurie Gerber (: 36:27

Andrea!

Ding, ding, ding! Back to nature,

Junie Moon (: 36:31

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 36:32

girl!

Andrea Knoche (: 36:33

Bringing

back. I'm gonna start with the bacon strip and then we're gonna go from there. Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 36:33

Yeah. So things change. Things change. Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 36:38

Andrea,

Dawn Wiggins (: 36:38

Well I'm

Laurie Gerber (: 36:39

less is more, more is less. Okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 36:42

my god,

this is where my big O has been for all these years. It went with

Karen Viesta (: 36:45

Ha ha.

Laurie Gerber (: 36:45

Maybe.

Andrea Knoche (: 36:46

the hair. my god.

Junie Moon (: 36:48

It's

it's find what works for you, find what feels good for you. And

Andrea Knoche (: 36:51

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 36:52

for me I definitely thinned out and it's just like okay, that's my body. You know, that's my body,

Andrea Knoche (: 36:57

Mm. Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 36:58

doesn't bother me.

Andrea Knoche (: 37:00

Mm. Great. I love that conversation. That was fun. That's okay. It goes to the salon with her.

Laurie Gerber (: 37:02

Karen doesn't want to talk about her pussy hair, I think. That's where she draws the line.

Dawn Wiggins (: 37:09

It goes to the line.

Laurie Gerber (: 37:10

Okay.

Karen Viesta (: 37:10

Like Andrea, I don't

I don't have any, so I don't have any to speak of so

Andrea Knoche (: 37:14

See, it you gotta just try different things, see what works. I was just traumatized when I was with my it was actually my husband, my ex-husband that I was with for the very first time. And and I I had mentioned my parents were older, so we just never talked about that, like the grooming and everything. And I remember the first time I took my panties off and this thing poofed out. And I mean, he was like taken aback, you know? And I was like, What? Like I didn't know. And then

Laurie Gerber (: 37:40

No.

Andrea Knoche (: 37:40

it it kind of, you know, we've joked about it. I know we joked about it, and he has no

filter. So I'm sure he said something to me and but and it stayed with me like forever. I'm like, I don't want like people having to dig through

Laurie Gerber (: 37:48

Hmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 37:51

down there, you know? Find the gold. That would be terrible. Yes.

Dawn Wiggins (: 37:54

No, but look how that comment impacted you. Like my mom's comment with my

Laurie Gerber (: 37:57

Yeah,

Dawn Wiggins (: 37:57

hair. Like that guy who commented

Laurie Gerber (: 37:57

one comment.

Karen Viesta (: 37:58

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 37:59

on my lack of a pedicure

Andrea Knoche (: 37:59

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 38:00

at spring break in nineteen ninety. I don't know what, right?

Like Yeah, you know, it's like, yeah. Mm-hmm. We don't realize how how brainwashed we are.

Andrea Knoche (: 38:03

And now you can't let that go. Yeah. Words. Yep. The strength

Karen Viesta (: 38:05

Yeah. It's true.

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 38:10

of the tongue. Yes,

Junie Moon (: 38:11

huh.

Andrea Knoche (: 38:12

yes. All right, ladies, let's move on. It is time for our legs wide open section. And today our game is called Beauty Rule. We're gonna keep it or we're gonna kick it. We can use our paddles. We'll do our

Laurie Gerber (: 38:24

Keep it.

Andrea Knoche (: 38:25

thumbs up for our keep it and our thumbs down for we're gonna kick it, get rid of it. All right. So

I'm gonna read a beauty rule or an expectation that many women have grown up with, and we have to decide with yes, this still works for me, or no, I'm officially done with this nonsense. Okay. So we're gonna go with that. All right, everybody ready? This first one's easy because we just talked about it. Go. Yes. Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 38:42

Hmm. And everybody, if you're not watching on YouTube, come on over to YouTube and do your voting with us on the comments, please.

Karen Viesta (: 38:46

Ready.

Yes.

Andrea Knoche (: 38:53

I would love it. Everybody get a paddle. We just got these on Amazon. Get a

Laurie Gerber (: 38:56

Get better.

Andrea Knoche (: 38:56

paddle. Play along with us. We would love that. Send us your vids. We'd love it.

All right, number one, women should cover gray hair. We just talked about that. Do are we keeping that theory or are we kicking it? We are all kicking it choice. Do you, Boo? Yeah, except for us. None of us are, but everybody else. Yes. Thank

Laurie Gerber (: 39:09

No, f that. We are all exceptions to the rule.

Junie Moon (: 39:10

Чойс, чойс.

Karen Viesta (: 39:11

Choice. Choice. Yeah. But we like choice. Yes. Yes.

Dawn Wiggins (: 39:17

The expectation. You're asking about the expectation. That yeah. Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 39:20

Right. Yes.

Andrea Knoche (: 39:22

you. Yes, we are. Okay, next one. Long hair is more feminine. Is that?

Laurie Gerber (: 39:28

I

still think that's true! Fuck, guys!

Andrea Knoche (: 39:30

I do too.

Karen Viesta (: 39:31

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 39:32

Yeah, I do too. Karen, why do you say no?

Junie Moon (: 39:33

Me too. Yeah. Indoctrination.

Karen Viesta (: 39:37

Again, I'm gonna go back to it. I think a lot of it depends on your hair texture, the the your vibe, your clothing, your style, your skin tone. You know, I think there are women

Andrea Knoche (: 39:47

Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 39:48

who look fabulous and feminine and gorgeous. I I think it's as Lori said, you know, I there was a do you remember like back in the 90s that band Wilson Phillips? I was obsessed and cut my hair short like that, and

Andrea Knoche (: 39:58

Mm-hmm. China and all them, yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 39:58

love them.

Junie Moon (: 39:58

Yeah, yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 40:02

I rocked it for a long time and I loved it, and I didn't feel less feminine.

Andrea Knoche (: 40:06

Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 40:06

But I think,

Laurie Gerber (: 40:06

Mmm.

Karen Viesta (: 40:07

you know, it's a vibe and and you have to I I I think yeah, I think it has to

Andrea Knoche (: 40:10

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 40:10

Be able to own it. Own it.

Laurie Gerber (: 40:10

Nice. It's a vibe.

Karen Viesta (: 40:12

go with your style and your life and and if so, you know, it's very fam can be very feminine.

Andrea Knoche (: 40:15

Yeah. Go for it. Well,

Dawn Wiggins (: 40:16

Amazing answer. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 40:18

it's interesting because I don't know if anybody remembers this. I think some of us were around the same age, but another 90s show called Felicity with Carrie Russell, who's in like the diplomat now, right? And she had this amazing mane of hair. Very curly, like she had the perm,

Laurie Gerber (: 40:30

Yes. Curly.

Karen Viesta (: 40:30

Curly, right? Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 40:32

right? It was beautiful. And she cut that off one season. She didn't tell anybody she was doing it, not the producers, not anybody. And she just completely cut it off to a pixie cut. And their ratings.

They plummeted. They plummeted.

Karen Viesta (: 40:44

Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 40:46

Yes. She

Junie Moon (: 40:46

Wow.

Andrea Knoche (: 40:47

they almost lost

Laurie Gerber (: 40:47

Fascinating.

Andrea Knoche (: 40:48

the entire show because she cut that, cut her

Junie Moon (: 40:50

No.

Andrea Knoche (: 40:50

hair off. Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 40:51

Jenny Garth

Jenny Garth, recently on from: 90210

Andrea Knoche (: 40:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nine two one yeah. Mm-hmm. That's right. Yep. Yep.

Laurie Gerber (: 40:59

Hmm, do.

Karen Viesta (: 41:05

they were so unhappy with her. They they she was miserable because it was, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 41:07

Yeah. Maybe it was a 90s thing. Cause that's you know, that that was such a big thing. Same thing. Yep. Yep. The hair

Laurie Gerber (: 41:08

Wow. Yep. Jennifer Aniston. The cut. Cut.

Junie Moon (: 41:11

No.

Andrea Knoche (: 41:15

is everything. All right.

Laurie Gerber (: 41:16

We get it.

Andrea Knoche (: 41:18

here's another kind of stigma expectation that women over 50 should not have very long hair.

Think you can have what you want. yeah, we all agree.

Junie Moon (: 41:28

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 41:29

Like again, have what you want. Is there such a thing as too long?

Junie Moon (: 41:32

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 41:33

Sometimes I think there is when it's that, you know, the people that don't want to ever cut it and it's like down at their ass and it's like real stringy and everything, that might be too long,

Junie Moon (: 41:40

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 41:40

but that's just a preference. All right.

Karen Viesta (: 41:43

too,

right? It's it's fifty is the cut like it's it's

Andrea Knoche (: 41:46

Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 41:46

other people imposing an expiration date on women and and femininity and you know, silly.

Andrea Knoche (: 41:49

Why it's so

Dawn Wiggins (: 41:51

But

Andrea Knoche (: 41:51

weird.

Dawn Wiggins (: 41:51

I do think our

grandmothers operated that way. I don't think our grandmothers had long hair. This is a modern phenomenon.

Laurie Gerber (: 41:56

No, absolutely not.

Andrea Knoche (: 41:56

No, they started doing that core that

short old woman's haircut, right? Like it's very Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 42:00

Yep. Yep.

Dawn Wiggins (: 42:01

This is a modern phenomenon, us clinging

to youth in a way

that I think

Laurie Gerber (: 42:06

Yes.

Junie Moon (: 42:06

Mm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 42:07

is unprecedented.

Laurie Gerber (: 42:08

Yes, I agree.

Junie Moon (: 42:08

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 42:08

Yep. Yep.

Okay.

Karen Viesta (: 42:09

Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 42:11

The next one, are we gonna keep it or kick it? Looking put together every day matters. That expect expectation. God no. See,

Junie Moon (: 42:16

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 42:18

god no. Karen thinks so.

Dawn Wiggins (: 42:19

I cannot spend.

Karen Viesta (: 42:20

That's great.

Andrea Knoche (: 42:21

it's what you talked about, Karen. Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 42:23

When

you say put together, I think everyone's definition of put together is different. You know, I I'm

Andrea Knoche (: 42:27

Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 42:28

not saying I'm in full makeup and, you know, every day, but but but I

Andrea Knoche (: 42:32

Efforts made.

Karen Viesta (: 42:33

put myself together in the sense that I,

Laurie Gerber (: 42:34

Efforts made.

Karen Viesta (: 42:35

you know, I I yeah, I I I would say that.

Andrea Knoche (: 42:36

Yeah. Do you think

it has anything to do with and and you are not married, but you you know, you've had a long relationship, so you're pretty solidified. But like, do you think it has to do with also where you are with your your relationships? Like for me, you know, I'm dating. So if I go to the grocery store looking all schlub and not trying, you know, I have to think sometimes before I go out, I could meet somebody at the grocery store, you know. So I kind of have to put on a little makeup before I go out and do that. I think it's sometimes where you are in your

Junie Moon (: 43:04

I believe that.

Andrea Knoche (: 43:04

life. Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 43:05

Yeah, I just noticed it

Andrea Knoche (: 43:05

Yeah. So you have a

Junie Moon (: 43:07

just the other

Karen Viesta (: 43:07

Maybe.

Junie Moon (: 43:07

day. I and I don't remember what it was, but I remember thinking, I don't have to think about this. I've got my guy. And I was just like, la la la.

Andrea Knoche (: 43:13

Yeah, you got your guy.

Laurie Gerber (: 43:14

Yeah, I'm trying to I'm trying

to repel love interests. That's a different situation.

Andrea Knoche (: 43:20

Yeah.

She's like, anyway.

Karen Viesta (: 43:21

I think even when

I even I mean I was married for 24 years. And again, you know, sometimes it was a ponytail and a baseball hat, but I didn't, I never felt like like I I or at least I try not

Andrea Knoche (: 43:32

Cute look though.

Karen Viesta (: 43:33

to go out looking like I would be embarrassed to run into somebody. Like I just I I don't need to be all glammed up. I just want to feel

Andrea Knoche (: 43:37

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 43:38

Right, that's Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 43:42

like if I bumped into somebody I hadn't seen in 10 years, that I wasn't gonna be like, my God, I'm so embarrassed. Look at me, you know.

Laurie Gerber (: 43:47

Honestly, I

Andrea Knoche (: 43:48

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 43:48

kind of wish I was like that. Like, I think there's something to that. Like, something to the confidence and open

Andrea Knoche (: 43:55

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 43:55

space you would be if you felt you looked decent.

Karen Viesta (: 43:59

Right.

Laurie Gerber (: 44:00

If you were caught on camera, you wouldn't be embarrassed.

Andrea Knoche (: 44:00

I think it's like where you are weren't

you all told like always wear clean underwear cause you never know if you got in an accident or something? Like

Laurie Gerber (: 44:05

Yes, yes, right.

Karen Viesta (: 44:07

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 44:08

that's how I think of it. I'm like just in case.

Karen Viesta (: 44:10

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 44:10

I was just gonna say,

Laurie Gerber (: 44:10

Yeah,

Dawn Wiggins (: 44:11

tell me you've

Laurie Gerber (: 44:11

yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 44:11

never done drop

Karen Viesta (: 44:12

Mm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 44:13

off in the morning in your pajamas. Like never, never.

Karen Viesta (: 44:15

totally. Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 44:17

never

not done

Andrea Knoche (: 44:17

Never.

Laurie Gerber (: 44:18

drop off in my pajamas since I moved to the country. Since I moved to the country. I'm just in the car.

Andrea Knoche (: 44:21

Never not done. That's awesome.

Karen Viesta (: 44:21

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 44:24

Ha ha ha

Andrea Knoche (: 44:25

That's funny. All right. Another expectation or stigma. Men age better than women. I hate to say it. I think they do. No. Age better. I I feel I'm the only one. I just you with me, Don? Tell us.

Karen Viesta (: 44:34

I don't think so. I don't think so.

Laurie Gerber (: 44:34

What does that mean to age better? That's not even a thing. What does that mean? We age better because we take care of ourselves.

Junie Moon (: 44:38

I think it's the person.

Dawn Wiggins (: 44:41

No, I I think I I

Junie Moon (: 44:43

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 44:45

do

Laurie Gerber (: 44:46

Easy.

Dawn Wiggins (: 44:47

think there's something to it. I I I haven't thought it out, right? Karen probably has like a beautiful response. I'm I'm manifesting Karen has a beautiful response. So

Karen Viesta (: 44:56

Ha ha ha.

Dawn Wiggins (: 44:58

is it our programming or is that and maybe it depends on the man, right? But when you think about a man who's

Andrea Knoche (: 45:02

It depends on the man.

Dawn Wiggins (: 45:03

efforted to take care of himself and maintain

Andrea Knoche (: 45:06

Mm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 45:07

muscle tone and

I think they wear salt and pepper better. Like to Karen's point about facial structure and this and that and the other, they do. They do. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 45:11

Yes. They age like fine wine. They age like fine wine. That's the saying. Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 45:12

That I do believe.

Laurie Gerber (: 45:14

error.

Junie Moon (: 45:14

believe that

Karen Viesta (: 45:18

But I don't, I don't believe that though. I'll still stand by my no because

Dawn Wiggins (: 45:21

Wait, teach me.

Andrea Knoche (: 45:22

But

Karen Viesta (: 45:23

well I I'm just basing it on like when I go to my high school reunion and I look around at what the

Dawn Wiggins (: 45:29

mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 45:30

men look like and what the women look like, I think the women are head and shoulders, you know. But but here's here's my

Andrea Knoche (: 45:33

We far supersed.

Laurie Gerber (: 45:33

They cared. Yes, the men have let themselves go.

Junie Moon (: 45:36

Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 45:37

theory about that. I think that men are more apt when they're in a committed partnership to sort of give up on the way that they look.

I think women

Andrea Knoche (: 45:47

Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 45:48

are more committed to, you know, looking good and and keeping

Dawn Wiggins (: 45:53

Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 45:53

up because I don't think women are doing it just for men. I think women are doing it for

Junie Moon (: 45:58

Mm. I love that.

Andrea Knoche (: 45:58

Mm.

Karen Viesta (: 45:59

other women as much as they're doing it for men. So I don't think they get

Laurie Gerber (: 46:00

Good point. Good point.

Dawn Wiggins (: 46:00

Each other. Yes. Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 46:03

into a marriage and go, I can give up now, you know, in the

Andrea Knoche (: 46:06

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 46:06

Right.

Karen Viesta (: 46:07

same way that that I think men do. Does that make

sense?

Andrea Knoche (: 46:09

Yeah,

Laurie Gerber (: 46:09

That's

so interesting, so true.

Dawn Wiggins (: 46:10

Yes, totally.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:10

definitely. Great

point. Great point.

Junie Moon (: 46:12

No, no.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:13

Great point. All right. how about the one that women should spend time and money maintaining their appearance? Yes, you should. They should. I think we need to, yeah. That's what

Laurie Gerber (: 46:20

Should.

Karen Viesta (: 46:21

Yeah, thank

Junie Moon (: 46:22

Yeah, it's the should thing that's getting me there.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:25

it said. But I mean, and how many of us actually we know Karen goes to the salon and I'm pretty sure Lori does. Do you other two? I don't. I do my own, I color my own hair and all that stuff. Nah.

Laurie Gerber (: 46:36

Nice. Wow, you're doing great.

Junie Moon (: 46:37

I do 'cause I don't

know how to do it, but I have to.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:40

you go and get it done.

Dawn Wiggins (: 46:40

Yeah, I'm very I I have been to the

salon until modern history. My cousin is a h hairdresser, so like I she comes to my house today. I'm spoiled, spoiled.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:47

Hmm. She does it.

Laurie Gerber (: 46:49

nice.

Junie Moon (: 46:48

Nice.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:50

She comes to my house.

Laurie Gerber (: 46:50

Spoils.

Andrea Knoche (: 46:53

All right.

Junie Moon (: 46:53

Yeah, I need to have it like

painted on every friggin' little curl.

Laurie Gerber (: 46:57

Yeah

Dawn Wiggins (: 46:57

But I think

where we spend our time and our money, it it it does say something. And I think like we should spend time time and money taking care of the planet. I think we should spend time and money taking care I don't know, of a

Andrea Knoche (: 47:09

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 47:10

like anything that we value, right? So

Andrea Knoche (: 47:13

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 47:13

and I do think our appearance is an extension of our wellness. So I'm not saying, you know, the

Andrea Knoche (: 47:19

Mm-hmm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 47:20

highest vibe state is authenticity. I'm not saying turn yourself into somebody else, but I do think effort to, you know

Karen Laurie, just echoing what's been said. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 47:30

Yep. Okay. Just a couple more. and this great segue for me there, Don. Beauty routines or self-care. Hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 47:36

Yes.

Andrea Knoche (: 47:39

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 47:39

Like to an

Karen Viesta (: 47:39

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 47:40

extent. Like it's part of self care. It's part of self care. Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 47:41

Too right. There's an extreme. There's an extreme with that

Andrea Knoche (: 47:42

Yeah. Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 47:45

think,

Karen Viesta (: 47:45

too.

Laurie Gerber (: 47:45

remember when I was saying just the idea of your appearance not being distracting to you or

Andrea Knoche (: 47:52

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 47:52

the other person is like one of the functions of what, like I'm teaming things, I'm putting things in order, I'm color coordinating or whatever, tucking in my shirt, like all of these actions to make yourself look put together, frees

Andrea Knoche (: 48:05

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 48:06

up mental capacity, right? So that's why I think it's self care. Like I do not enjoy

Andrea Knoche (: 48:10

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 48:10

going to the salon at all, like at all.

Dawn Wiggins (: 48:12

I don't either.

Andrea Knoche (: 48:13

Mm.

Laurie Gerber (: 48:13

But I do enjoy

Dawn Wiggins (: 48:14

I don't either.

Laurie Gerber (: 48:15

how relieved and better I feel when I leave and how much easier it then

Andrea Knoche (: 48:17

When you do.

Laurie Gerber (: 48:18

is to take care of myself

Karen Viesta (: 48:19

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 48:19

because it's, my

Andrea Knoche (: 48:20

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 48:21

attention can now be focused on the things that are more meaningful

Karen Viesta (: 48:23

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 48:24

to me like relationships and my work and my spiritual life and all that stuff.

Andrea Knoche (: 48:27

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 48:27

But like having a a

shower filter on my shower, I believe is very self-caring. Does that also reinforce my vanity metrics? Yes, but it's actually taking care of my health. do I think that using clean skincare products is and and applying them and nourishing my skin is self care? Yes. Like, do I think that those things replace therapy? No.

Karen Viesta (: 48:52

Right. Well, you know,

Andrea Knoche (: 48:52

No.

Karen Viesta (: 48:54

I I have often a hundred

Dawn Wiggins (: 48:54

Or spiritual practice or whatever, you know. Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 48:56

percent. And I to to your point, Dawn, I think, you know, what's important to remember is I I think of beauty as like a pyramid, right? Wellness is the foundation. So so we can we can

Dawn Wiggins (: 49:06

Yes. I've heard you say that. Yes. Yes.

Karen Viesta (: 49:09

use skincare and hair care and all these other things, but let's not lose the plot that wellness is the foundation, right? It's not going to make you look

Andrea Knoche (: 49:17

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 49:18

Sleep, hydration, food. Yeah. Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 49:20

Like a million bucks if you're just slapping

Andrea Knoche (: 49:22

Yeah.

Karen Viesta (: 49:22

on creams and hair products.

Andrea Knoche (: 49:24

Yeah. Yeah. I also want to add that I think, you know, I've always actually loved going to get my nails done or my hair done, everything. for me it's that unhealthy money relationship that I just don't want to pay it. But I think that also those have gone downhill for me. Like I feel it's become more about them trying to turn you real quick, get more more people coming in. I used to love to go get my nails, and one person would do my nails, you'd sit in that massage chair.

And

then you'd have somebody else

Laurie Gerber (: 49:51

Right.

Andrea Knoche (: 49:52

come over to do your feet after. Now they're like doing it at the same time. They're doing it so fast just so they can move you out and get the next person in. I don't even feel relaxed when I go to get my nails done anymore.

Junie Moon (: 50:02

Mm-hmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 50:02

Yeah, I feel like I'm being rushed, rush, rushed.

Laurie Gerber (: 50:05

Mmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 50:06

okay. it's okay to reinvent your entire look in midlife. Hell yeah, it is. Anytime. Go for it. Go for it. Sounds like fun, doesn't it? I love that. Two more.

Laurie Gerber (: 50:11

Can't wait, can't wait to do that. Sounds like fun. Yay.

Andrea Knoche (: 50:19

Attractiveness has more to do with confidence than it does appearance. Yes, we are all agreeing on that one. These

Laurie Gerber (: 50:23

Yes, we're all in alignment.

Andrea Knoche (: 50:26

are these are some good ones right at the end. Last one, women should get to define beauty for themselves.

Laurie Gerber (: 50:33

Ding ding ding!

Andrea Knoche (: 50:34

Yes. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

Junie Moon (: 50:34

That's a should I will I will accept.

Laurie Gerber (: 50:36

That's right. That's a should we can all agree to. Yes. Yay.

Karen Viesta (: 50:36

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 50:36

That is a good should. Mm-hmm.

Karen Viesta (: 50:39

Yes.

Andrea Knoche (: 50:39

Riyadh. I love when we end unanimously. It's so good.

Love that. Well, I think that we all look beautiful in our own way. And I think we rock it every day. So, and if you guys want to see it, you gotta come check us out on video. You're not gonna get that full effect just listening to us. You can't see this fabulous hairdo that Lori has every day or how Laura I'm sorry, Karen just glows on camera. I don't miss out on anybody. You everybody looks beautiful and we all shine. So I love that. So to the listeners out there, how has changing hair patterns affected the way you see yourself in midlife?

Have you embraced these changes? Do you fight them? Have you grieved them? Or maybe all of the above? We would love to hear from you. Send us a DM, send us an email at menopauselovelounge at gmail.com. We want to hear your story and it may get featured on an upcoming episode where we talk about you. We love to hear from the listeners and we will give you shout outs if you want to join us. So if this conversation resonated with you, share it with a friend. We all want to share this because we just love how we're all

Growing together and learning from each other. I've learned so much from all of you women. So that's amazing. Anything else to add, ladies, before we sign off from the lounge? We're good. We're good. All right, you guys, that is

Junie Moon (: 51:54

Yeah, wonderful.

Karen Viesta (: 51:55

Okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 51:56

it for this week. Do what you want with your hair, your body, everything. Own it. Love it. All right, we'll see you guys next week from the

Junie Moon (: 52:03

Mm.

Andrea Knoche (: 52:04

Menopause Love Lounge. Bye.

Karen Viesta (: 52:05

Bye.

Laurie Gerber (: 52:07

Bye.