He Can't Get It Up... Is It You? Let's Talk About It!

Andrea Knoche (: 00:00

today we're talking about a very interesting topic because it happens for us not to us, to us not for us, am I saying that right? I don't know.

Ozzie Osborne (: 00:09

From us. From us.

Andrea Knoche (: 00:12

From us, for us.

Laurie Gerber (: 00:11

It happens in our vicinity, in

Dawn Wiggins (: 00:12

I'm gonna make it spiritual.

Laurie Gerber (: 00:14

our vicinity, in our vicinity.

Andrea Knoche (: 00:16

It happens

in our vicinity. And yes, we are talking about menopause and the hard truth about when men go soft.

So, okay, so what happens when the man you love can't get it up? Or it just won't. It's not his fault. It just won't. So many midlife couples everywhere are quietly struggling from erectile dysfunction, yet.

No one's really talking about it. It's another one of those shame things, And we don't talk about how it impacts her. So from shame and silence to creative reconnection, this episode of Menopause Love Lounge, we are gonna dive into what ED means for emotional and sexual intimacy after 40 and how women can respond with compassion, honesty, yet having power still. Do we like this? We like this. We like this.

Ozzie Osborne (: 01:05

We like this.

Junie Moon (: 01:05

Yeah, important topic,

Dawn Wiggins (: 01:05

Love it.

Junie Moon (: 01:08

yes.

Andrea Knoche (: 01:08

This is

such an important topic.

Laurie Gerber (: 01:09

Yes.

Andrea Knoche (: 01:10

And

I really hope that men will tune into this one to listen to how it does affect us during our intimate times and what they could do to kind of soften the blow and what we can also do to help them on that side. So that's the point of this whole episode.

We're gonna give our personal stories on what happens inside the relationship when erections start disappearing from the room. We are also gonna do our stats. And of course we're gonna do our legs wide open segment.

which today is bedroom innovation day. That's all I'm gonna say on that one. Let's talk about your own relationship and how ED comes up for you or doesn't. God, we're gonna be hitting this all day, all day, guys. All right,

Dawn Wiggins (: 01:56

All the double entendre.

Andrea Knoche (: 01:58

we got all of it.

Dawn, why don't you start us out? Tell us what's going on if you've experienced this, what you do to get through this.

Dawn Wiggins (: 02:06

Yeah, wow. So I've experienced it definitely personally in a handful of relationships. And then also professionally, obviously, I've worked with a lot of couples. And so it just their experiences of it and working through it is such a sensitive subject. And so I've experienced it personally, I mean, I guess in both realms, right, as like a performance issue, like feelings of needing to be good enough and needing to be able to perform. I've also experienced it.

as a relationship issue, meaning there was actually somebody I was dating post divorce and it just started to become very, very dysfunctional. And I think a woman's fear is often like, he's not that into me. And that was what was actually happening in that relationship. He wasn't that into me. He had started reconnecting with his ex-wife and like, that was a very real thing. So that's very separate from it being

a performance issue, right? That was a very much a relationship issue.

And then I've also experienced it as like a health and wellness issue in terms of just like pure exhaustion or depletion or circulatory issues or whatever. So I think it can be multifaceted. I'm sure that men have experienced it as all of those things at some point in their life, these unique challenges. And I wish there was a world where we could just be cool and talk about it because the problem isn't

you know, what the poor penis is doing or not doing. The problem is the not being vulnerable or honest or open or connected about it or just saying the thing, right? And so I think it's super reasonable for men to not be able to perform all the time. Like that's super reasonable. The problem

becomes when we start

Andrea Knoche (: 03:44

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 03:45

to tell ourselves stories about it, you know? So I think that when there's low self-esteem or low honesty, this is a very, very stressful experience.

I think that if a person or a couple has a decent sense of self or the relationship has a reasonably strong foundation, it's not so hard to work through. So

Junie Moon (: 04:08

Mm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 04:08

I think if this is a chronic issue that comes up in your relationship, you got to check with yourself. Like, is my relationship really that healthy? Am I that healthy? Is my partner that healthy? Because something needs some rehabilitation and it's probably not just circulation.

Ozzie Osborne (: 04:23

Right.

Laurie Gerber (: 04:24

so well said. Although I want to just check

Andrea Knoche (: 04:25

Yeah, yeah that was.

Laurie Gerber (: 04:27

in on the word, the word performance, because to me that word performance is, we all have these unfair standards and we

Junie Moon (: 04:35

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 04:36

normally talk about the unfair standards for women, but today we're talking kind of about a really unfair standard for men. And

Dawn Wiggins (: 04:42

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 04:43

I wonder if that word performance should just, we should try to phase it out because I think about sexual intimacy between couples as play.

Right, like as let's play

Ozzie Osborne (: 04:53

right.

Laurie Gerber (: 04:53

with pleasure. Let's play with my experience, your experience giving to each other, receiving from each other, where maybe performance has nothing to do with anything for any of us. And wouldn't that be nice? What do you think, Dawn? Okay. Argue your point, please.

Dawn Wiggins (: 05:04

I don't want to phase it out completely, not completely. think, yeah, well, I think there's

just nuance and context and it matters, right? And for some people, performance is part of their...

way of relating to the world. Like there is literally right, some personalities are just more performative, like literally actors and actresses and whoever, right? Like,

Laurie Gerber (: 05:28

Right, right, right.

Dawn Wiggins (: 05:30

so I don't think we could phase it out across the board. I do think it's so valuable

Laurie Gerber (: 05:33

interesting.

Dawn Wiggins (: 05:34

your point to say like, okay, let's make it more about connection, play, exploration, creativity, like all those things like, yeah, let's bring all that into it. So it's not solely performative. But for some people, there is going to be that performance aspect that is the play, you know what I mean? Like,

Laurie Gerber (: 05:49

Sure, great point.

Dawn Wiggins (: 05:50

Anyways.

Andrea Knoche (: 05:52

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 05:53

No further

questions.

Dawn Wiggins (: 05:54

No.

Laurie Gerber (: 05:58

Your honor.

Ozzie Osborne (: 05:56

Well, it

Andrea Knoche (: 05:56

You forgot your honor.

Dawn Wiggins (: 05:59

you

Andrea Knoche (: 06:01

No, that was really well said, Dawn. And I agree with what you said at one point about like, why should we always be expecting them to be able to perform, if you will, because they've got things going on in our head. We had our whole discussion previously about the Big O and how hard it is for us at times because our minds are elsewhere. We're constantly thinking of other things. And if we think of so easily, because this happens often where the guy will say to me,

Okay, I'm just thinking of my grandmother or I'm thinking of like, you know, something, something I don't

Yeah, exactly. In order to

Junie Moon (: 06:34

Baseball, baseball. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 06:32

Just trying to slow it down, pull it off.

Laurie Gerber (: 06:32

F-f-football! Football, baseball, yeah. Right.

Andrea Knoche (: 06:38

lose their erection. So how quickly their mind can change that and overcome that, why would we think it would be any different when they're just doing normal performance? So I think that can be really tricky. Laurie, I think you have a lot to say today. What do you want to say?

Laurie Gerber (: 06:53

Well, I was actually going to make that same point when I think about all the mechanics and emotional and psychological factors that go into us having an orgasm. Why would we expect any different for any human being and their quote unquote performance? I don't have a lot of experience with this in my modern day, but I can think back to my younger days and having had that experience. I'll add a few more ideas to the list of what could be causing this. For example, alcohol.

That was one that I recall, which a lot of people are still drinking that stuff and then wondering

Andrea Knoche (: 07:22

Yes. Whiskey dick.

Ozzie Osborne (: 07:23

Yep.

Dawn Wiggins (: 07:26

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 07:28

why it's not that great, which is

Dawn Wiggins (: 07:29

why it's not working.

Laurie Gerber (: 07:30

why I think mourning sex, you can have it all. And

Andrea Knoche (: 07:34

Ha ha ha!

Laurie Gerber (: 07:35

sometimes I do think it's obvious reasons. And then

Andrea Knoche (: 07:40

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 07:41

I also wonder about, because when I was growing up, it was much less socially acceptable to be gay. was much less,

Andrea Knoche (: 07:47

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 07:48

Thank

Laurie Gerber (: 07:49

so I think there's

gotta be a lot of us in midlife who had experiences with boys we wish liked us and they really didn't and that's really

Andrea Knoche (: 07:57

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 07:57

okay. And to Dawn's point, like sometimes it is about us, probably usually not because it's mortifying for a man to not be able to get hard. It's like the worst thing that can happen to him and that's what I really wanna emphasize

Ozzie Osborne (: 08:09

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 08:10

is like this is the worst thing that can happen. If he could fix it, he would. If he could avoid it, he would. It really most likely is not about you but there...

is a possibility, it is about you and that doesn't make it your fault. That doesn't mean there's something, you know, that you need to change about yourself per se, but all of

Andrea Knoche (: 08:28

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 08:28

these options are possible.

Dawn Wiggins (: 08:30

No, it's super interesting because

Andrea Knoche (: 08:30

Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 08:31

I know we're gonna we're gonna talk in the future about attachment style. So if you think about like that guy that I was dating, and he wasn't telling me the truth, like, which thing was more painful for him, the attachment issue of like, breaking up and just being honest and direct and not know it right, like the attachment issue was more painful than the not being able to maintain an erection, right. So it's like, which thing is more painful? So interesting, right? Men are complicated, women are complicated, like, okay, we're, you know, let's let's just open up.

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 09:01

Yeah, yeah,

exactly. All right, well, I'll go next since I'm right here next to you two ladies and talk about from a dating perspective. So it actually hasn't happened very often, surprisingly. So, but I do recall one fairly more recently that it definitely happened and it was a big to do because it's all he could talk about. It was like he was preparing me for it all the time.

Junie Moon (: 09:28

Hmmmm

Andrea Knoche (: 09:28

And

so it became this third person in the room with us, I felt like. And that made it little bit uncomfortable. And I think it also did like a bit of a mind fuck on him. So he was constantly like talking to his penis during sex and he'd be like, come on, buddy, you got this.

Yes. And the...

Junie Moon (: 09:46

my god, the poor guy. And the pressure on the penis to show up.

Andrea Knoche (: 09:52

Yes, and the pressure all around because then it put a weird thing on me where I'm like, okay, I know. Well,

Dawn Wiggins (: 09:58

100%.

Andrea Knoche (: 09:59

maybe I didn't fully know that it wasn't me. It still felt like a little bit of, okay, something I'm not doing is not turning him on. But he's also dealing with something, you know, and he had already said that before he was on medication for it, for the dysfunction. And then it was like, he was just constantly cheering it on. I don't know. And so

I could do without the pep talks during the sessions, you know? And yeah, it became a little bit difficult, but I will say as we grew together and became more comfortable with each other, the less and less it happened. So I can

Junie Moon (: 10:36

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 10:36

probably attribute it to the nervousness, the anxiety of the whole experience altogether. And so I think that, you know, I would definitely give grace for that. And yeah, as I recall it.

because we dated for probably about six months or so. And so it did continue on or continually get lesser and lesser, which made it better and better. And we didn't have that person in room anymore. They were out of there.

Laurie Gerber (: 11:03

It's a

Dawn Wiggins (: 11:03

that is

Laurie Gerber (: 11:04

great plug for waiting for sex, it really is. To get comfortable

Andrea Knoche (: 11:06

See?

Laurie Gerber (: 11:08

and to get to know each other. I mean, that's what I

Ozzie Osborne (: 11:11

I'm all for that.

Laurie Gerber (: 11:12

took away. That's what I took away from what you said.

Dawn Wiggins (: 11:14

Also, as

Andrea Knoche (: 11:14

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins (: 11:14

a trauma informed therapist, like that guy had significant underlying trauma issues. And we could say that it's

Andrea Knoche (: 11:20

Yes.

Dawn Wiggins (: 11:21

hormonal for some men or circulatory or whatever, but what's often underpinning those things like why is the testosterone though, or why is this is trauma. And so I hate to be like, you know, you know, when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. But in that instance, right, like that really is trauma injecting itself and it is a third person in the relationship I've treated

loads of couples dealing with this and it does, it takes on a life of its own and it's very tricky to, yeah,

unwind.

Junie Moon (: 11:50

Hmm.

Ozzie Osborne (: 11:51

I agree. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 11:51

Yeah, absolutely.

Ozzy, what do you got? Tell us about you.

Ozzie Osborne (: 11:55

Yeah, no, just like what everyone, I'll just say what everyone else is saying is that it's not just a mechanical issue. It's a performance issue. It's an identity

Andrea Knoche (: 12:03

Mm-hmm.

Ozzie Osborne (: 12:04

issue. It's a trauma.

Junie Moon (: 12:04

I

Ozzie Osborne (: 12:05

mean, it's so nuanced that it's hard to pinpoint exactly what it is. It's very different for every single individual. And I think that it's, I'll speak from experience. So I, when I was 42, not too long ago, I was dating a 29 year

Andrea Knoche (: 12:20

you

Ozzie Osborne (: 12:21

old and I was like, yes, it's gonna be great.

And I have, you know, I have an, I have an insatiable appetite for sex. And so I think the pressure of that became so big for him that, uh-huh, uh, that he didn't, he couldn't, he,

Dawn Wiggins (: 12:37

This was fun.

Ozzie Osborne (: 12:38

he, right. It's so fun. Um, so he was having a lot of issues with performance or, right. And we're going to use performance for a reason, right? Just like Dawn said that there is a place for it because men are designed or conditioned to perform.

Right? And so it's attached to their worth, it's attached to their purpose, it's attached to a lot of things. And so if this is yet one more thing that they fail at, it is a big deal. you mentioned that too, where

Andrea Knoche (: 13:03

you

Ozzie Osborne (: 13:04

it's a huge deal for them. And as women, it's important for us to equip ourselves with being honest with how it feels to us, but also being gentle with the way that we broach the subject. A lot of my clients, the women, tend to sort of go at it as something I need to fix.

or something that I need to highlight or something I need, right? And it is a personalized, so for me in my instance, so my 29 year old, God bless his soul, had a really hard time. And so I did enough work up until then to know that I have to be gentle with him, that it is a big deal, it's a sense of failure. But I also knew another component to what was going on for him is he was low in testosterone and that that was tied to the amount of pressure that he puts on himself.

and the, you know, not having community to unload that pressure, not having a space to be able to share or to release, release, right? And so when it

Dawn Wiggins (: 13:59

Mm-hmm.

Ozzie Osborne (: 14:00

came time to be, you know, to perform, you know, with someone who's insatiably hungry and desires sex in you know, quite a big way, it didn't work. And again, it was really hard for him. So, you know, I was gentle and we, but,

That's not to say that I didn't have moments where I felt like he doesn't want me, doesn't desire me, there's something wrong with me, right? It reminded me of my experience with my husband. And so it did touch on a lot of really sensitive things for me. the women that I work with have a hard time with it too. And so you do need to acknowledge that those emotions are there, that how you receive it does feel personal in moments, right?

Andrea Knoche (: 14:47

Mm-hmm.

Ozzie Osborne (: 14:48

So the women also have to have a space to go somewhere to discuss this or to release this sense of insecurity because it does feel like, hey, there's something wrong with you, right? We

Junie Moon (: 14:59

Hmm.

Ozzie Osborne (: 15:00

did go

Andrea Knoche (: 15:00

more.

Ozzie Osborne (: 15:01

to a doctor who specialized in ED and who was a friend of mine, weird. And he did treat him. He did some ransom tests and sure enough, he was low in testosterone. So then...

He got antistosterone and then he became a bitch. A complete bitch.

Andrea Knoche (: 15:21

No.

Ozzie Osborne (: 15:24

Yeah. So

Laurie Gerber (: 15:25

problem.

Ozzie Osborne (: 15:25

other problems. So

you have to...

Laurie Gerber (: 15:30

Hormones,

hormones, it's a thing.

Ozzie Osborne (: 15:34

It's a thing. Correct. So, you

Dawn Wiggins (: 15:34

Hormone health is mental health.

Laurie Gerber (: 15:36

It's a thing. It's a thing.

Ozzie Osborne (: 15:37

know, but you can't treat the hormones without treating the mental health, right? So I think that's where he was lacking is like he didn't have enough support with the mental health. I couldn't fix it for him. I couldn't, there was nothing I couldn't do. Eventually the relationship simmered. But it was, it was a thing. And again, just like Dawn, I work with a lot of couples that experience this and it is a big deal. It's a big elephant in the room.

And,

you know, women are feeling rejected and they're feeling a sense of, I'm not good enough as well. And the men don't know how to talk about it. So for me, it's always about what if we took sex off the table and just use curiosity and use our bodies to get to know one another. And that's all. Like taking sex off

Andrea Knoche (: 16:22

Yeah.

Ozzie Osborne (: 16:23

the table sometimes helps to just relieve the pressure that they have to perform.

Junie Moon (: 16:29

And I think timing is important too. Like when do

Laurie Gerber (: 16:29

have so many follow-up

Andrea Knoche (: 16:30

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 16:32

we have these conversations? Like you were talking about,

Andrea Knoche (: 16:35

Mm-hmm.

Junie Moon (: 16:36

you know, the challenge and the insecurities and wanting to fix. that's not a good time. When you're having sex, not a good time to say, hey, we need to fix this problem. Am

Ozzie Osborne (: 16:48

No. No.

Junie Moon (: 16:51

I not beautiful enough? Am I not turning you on? Cause there are

Ozzie Osborne (: 16:54

And now...

Junie Moon (: 16:54

all the insecurities that both sides are having, you know,

When do we create that place to talk? And again, that's in support

Ozzie Osborne (: 17:02

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 17:03

of waiting, especially if you're dating, to get comfortable, to be able to have these discussions without it being so inflammatory, so scary, so vulnerable while you're naked, you know?

Ozzie Osborne (: 17:13

Well, it's

inflammatory also because there's shame attached to it on both sides.

Junie Moon (: 17:17

Exactly.

Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 17:18

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 17:20

Bozzy,

can I ask you some follow up questions?

Ozzie Osborne (: 17:22

Laurie? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 17:25

I learned so much in the lounge. Did

Andrea Knoche (: 17:28

Thank

Laurie Gerber (: 17:28

you know he had low T and if so how, are you, so you just suspected or you theorized or that was just the doctor brought it up and you had never thought of it?

Ozzie Osborne (: 17:41

So for me, I looked at it not from the hormone space. I knew that the pressure that he was putting on himself, that I'm not good enough, I'm a failure. Like I knew that was in his way and that prevented him from showing up to be playful in the bedroom.

Laurie Gerber (: 17:58

Are you saying that inner dialogue is connected to levels of testosterone? And if so, are you

Dawn Wiggins (: 18:04

Yes!

Laurie Gerber (: 18:06

implying that

Ozzie Osborne (: 18:08

yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 18:08

being part of a men's group or being in a therapy situation or going to a 12-step meeting or some form of community would have helped that? Please discuss.

Junie Moon (: 18:15

Could've,

could've.

Ozzie Osborne (: 18:17

Whatever.

Yeah. And again, because it's nuanced, right?

Dawn Wiggins (: 18:18

But it's,

yeah, it's more complex than that, right? Because it starts with where did that pattern begin? And it probably goes back to his mother. She was impossible to please or his father was impossible to please.

Ozzie Osborne (: 18:29

Right.

Dawn Wiggins (: 18:30

So how our hormones and our endocrine system's function goes back to even when we were in utero, how stressed or not stressed our mothers were dictates how much or how little progesterone we have or how much testosterone they have, how we process stress chemicals and hormones.

So how was mom while she was pregnant with him and how did that his early childhood trickle down to how he metabolizes testosterone and then shows up as yeah, being hard on himself and whatever. So I think sometimes we, this is why I'm an integrative healer anymore, right? Because if we look at it just from like the therapeutic or coaching standpoint, we miss the entire like actual building blocks of our cellular metabolic endocrine hormonal health piece and we have to tackle both to be well, yeah.

Ozzie Osborne (: 19:14

Agreed.

Well, both plus,

Andrea Knoche (: 19:16

Mm.

Ozzie Osborne (: 19:17

right, there's another component. There's a spirituality component, right? There's a physiology, there's the emotional,

Dawn Wiggins (: 19:19

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, well said.

Ozzie Osborne (: 19:24

there's the physical, but there's also the spiritual, right? So it's like, what spiritual practices do you have as a man? Where do you go for, and most men today, as we know, I think we discussed this, don't have a place. A lot of them don't have a lot of friend groups. don't...

They isolate a lot. so that alone, right, they're alone with their thoughts. They don't know what to do with it. They don't know how to reframe.

Dawn Wiggins (: 19:48

Amen.

Ozzie Osborne (: 19:50

They don't have the capacity to shift the perspective and their perception of their experiences.

Andrea Knoche (: 19:57

Okay, so Juni, we want to hear about your story as well. And then I think we also want to just touch base a little bit on some things that we think or suggestions for the listeners that they can kind of do if they're in this situation. So Juni, tell us about what's going on with you.

Junie Moon (: 20:12

Yeah, so firstly like so much here already, you know What people are bringing into relationships from not only in utero as like dawn was saying but just like they're they're years and years of relationships and their Insecurities and doubts and I'm you know, I'm thinking about when I was dating that you know Some some men had not been with anyone for a long long time. And so there was that profession

that pressure performance kind of thing that would get in their way. So just really supporting the take it slow, get to know each other. But the big thing that I wanna share that I've experienced in the past, which is why I do the work I do now, is my deep insecurity, especially around body image and how for so many years I was so afraid of not being attractive enough, not being good enough. The insecurity is that if I'm not hot enough, they're not gonna get.

turned on. so years ago, that was a big deal if that happened in the bedroom, because it wasn't about them at all. It was about, I must not be hot enough for them. And then the spiral and not being able to talk about it. so thankfully, you know, doing the shadow work that I do, it got me to a place where I can feel empowered and strong and be able to have those conversations, but to know to have those conversations outside of the bedroom, but to be able to speak up because

you know, the pleasure was challenged for me. It's like, is he in me? You know, I mean, it's so horrible to say that, but I was like, I'm not feeling anything. And then there's the, I don't want to hurt his feelings and I don't want to make it worse by bringing it up. And so, you know, this is one of the things I don't necessarily focus on the men. I focus on, you know, most of the people I work with are the women is how can we get you to a place where you can feel empowered to say,

hey, can we have a conversation about this? And this is what I'm noticing, this is what I'm feeling, and how might we do this together and work together with this? But the big thing that I see is just the shame that both sides can feel bringing that into the bedroom and how it really can be disastrous if you can't talk about it and you don't have that agency to go.

you know, this is something that I want and this is something that I'd like to talk about with you. It is definitely a minefield if you don't have the tools. And that's why all

Ozzie Osborne (: 22:44

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 22:45

of us are bringing this conversation here, because people need to talk about it and people need to say, hey, this is not working for me or how can we do this differently so that we can both have pleasure? So I'm looking at it more as the like what's between our ears and yes, the hormones and all that stuff. But for me, it's

wow, I lived this, that deep fear of I'm not good enough. And being someone who works with mostly women, 50s, 60s and above, the biggest thing they're afraid of is, my boobs aren't as perky anymore and my body's changing and who's gonna want me now, which keeps them stuck and unable to really open in the bedroom, which then is another whole spiral. So that's what I got. It's the emotional stuff and being able to talk about it.

Ozzie Osborne (: 23:31

Yeah, and I want to just to add that when the shame, right, because as we're talking about this, shame is part of what is going on for both parties, right? And when shame dissolves, the ED goes away, right? So for the most part, right, because

Junie Moon (: 23:48

It it can, yeah. Sure. Yeah.

Ozzie Osborne (: 23:51

again, shame lives in the body and it can create...

physiological

issues in the body and hormonal issues in the body that then makes it really hard for them to perform or to be able to play even.

Junie Moon (: 24:08

Yeah, totally. what, you know, same thing when you let go of the shame and you shine a light on it, then you actually get closer. Then you're able to connect in a deeper way. And then it goes back to Laurie, which is it's way more fun. If Mr. Penis does not, you know, show up the way we want, it's like, well, what else can we do? How can we be with this versus party over, you know?

out of the bedroom and how can we work with it? Because I've had in the past where that has happened, not that often. I'm so grateful. It hasn't happened a lot in the past, but in those moments, it's how can we be with this? And even putting a soft penis in the vagina is one way to do it. it can't, Andrea's like, no. Which is why

Laurie Gerber (: 24:54

Andrea. Nobody can see Andrea's face. We don't all agree on everyone.

Junie Moon (: 25:01

you have to watch

Dawn Wiggins (: 25:01

Thank

Junie Moon (: 25:02

the YouTube, these faces.

Andrea Knoche (: 25:04

It

feels like you're kneading

Junie Moon (: 25:04

But there's the.

Andrea Knoche (: 25:05

dough and you're trying to get it in there. That's what it feels like.

Junie Moon (: 25:07

Yes, yes

Laurie Gerber (: 25:09

Kneading

Junie Moon (: 25:09

and...

Laurie Gerber (: 25:10

dough is fun, Andrea.

Junie Moon (: 25:12

and it can grow, right? Like you can bake the dough and it rises, you know?

Ozzie Osborne (: 25:16

Yes, and the

way you do that, you know how to do that? Your

Junie Moon (: 25:19

Tell us.

Ozzie Osborne (: 25:20

kekel exercises, you squeeze your vagina. It's a turn on.

Laurie Gerber (: 25:22

Kegels, kegels. Nice.

Junie Moon (: 25:22

Right, pull it in, pull it in.

Junie Moon (: 25:26

in

tantra, that that's a piece of it, a part of it, which is putting the soft penis in and just feeling. And I think

Dawn Wiggins (: 25:35

Just feeling.

Junie Moon (: 25:36

there's there's all that wiring, certainly for me, of how sex is supposed to be hard, fast, erotic, all that stuff that I did in my 20s and 30s.

Dawn Wiggins (: 25:44

And outcome oriented

versus process oriented.

Ozzie Osborne (: 25:46

Right, exactly.

Junie Moon (: 25:48

Exactly. So we

are older, we are in different bodies, perhaps certainly in the menopause love lounge, right? That we can do different things if we lean into what else is here. And I know that's something that I've worked through the years is like, knowing that there's nothing wrong with me and leaning into that, it's like, huh, what is energy work? What is it?

how can I drop in and feel it Anybody here agree, want, interested?

Ozzie Osborne (: 26:16

I Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 26:16

Yeah.

But what happens in the bedroom is really just a stripped down version of what's happening in every other domain of life, right? Every other domain of life. for

Junie Moon (: 26:25

So true. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Dawn Wiggins (: 26:28

instance, right, like I wish I had understood

Laurie Gerber (: 26:29

so true.

Dawn Wiggins (: 26:30

this earlier on. But when my now husband the one time we had this problem, he was working, you know, a physically hard job in the summer. And he was so exhausted, right? And like,

For my husband to be too exhausted to have an erection is like, he's really pushing himself very, very, very hard. he's right. And then I was so insecure. I made it all about me. It's like, well, this is actually how we're doing life. And it's just showing up here because

Junie Moon (: 27:00

Mmm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 27:00

when we're stripped down, we can't hide it, right? It's like literally vulnerability on display. So whatever's breaking down in the bedroom, it is breaking down way before the bedroom. And the bedroom is the place you can't hide it. You can't hide it there.

Ozzie Osborne (: 27:09

That's correct.

Junie Moon (: 27:10

Totally agree. Yeah, yeah, the

Ozzie Osborne (: 27:12

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 27:13

vulnerabilities. So

Laurie Gerber (: 27:15

Mic

Junie Moon (: 27:15

sisters,

I

think we should move on to some of the stats

Ozzie Osborne (: 27:18

Yes.

Junie Moon (: 27:18

that

Ozzie Osborne (: 27:18

Let's

Junie Moon (: 27:19

I don't look like Karen, but I'm going to act like her a little bit.

Dawn Wiggins (: 27:22

I

really love though you put on the glasses the whole I feel it's an immersive experience. I'm here for it. Yes.

Junie Moon (: 27:25

Gotta read, man. Gotta read. Menopause.

Laurie Gerber (: 27:28

It's

immersive.

Junie Moon (: 27:29

Can't

see a thing without them. Okay. So pretty crazy stats. 52 % of men over 40 experienced some form of erectile dysfunction

Dawn Wiggins (: 27:40

Mm-hmm.

Junie Moon (: 27:41

according to the Massachusetts Male Aging Study. I got the 52%. Well, that's true too, but over 40 was the thing

Laurie Gerber (: 27:45

According to those who admitted it.

Dawn Wiggins (: 27:48

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 27:50

that really popped out for me. But here's the other thing that was like,

he Journal of Sexual Medicine: 2023

Dawn Wiggins (: 28:12

Mm-hmm.

Junie Moon (: 28:13

this is a huge thing. It's like over 40, 52 % and what?

Laurie Gerber (: 28:16

It's like our orgasm is feeling like

Dawn Wiggins (: 28:18

Mm-hmm.

Laurie Gerber (: 28:19

the stats are a little similar to our orgasm issues.

Junie Moon (: 28:23

There's, you know, that's so true. So at this age, both sides are kind of challenged and

Dawn Wiggins (: 28:29

on the struggle bus.

Junie Moon (: 28:31

shame and nobody's really talking about it. But at the end of the day, you know, these are big friggin' stats. People are really struggling with ED. What do you guys think about these numbers?

Ozzie Osborne (: 28:42

I want to add that actually there is, and I wish we would have had these stats. I wish I could find them and I will. It's actually also happening in young men. Young men are not having,

Dawn Wiggins (: 28:53

Mm-hmm.

Ozzie Osborne (: 28:54

right? I know we're not talking about that age group, but I just want to identify that it's even starting earlier now in young men.

Dawn Wiggins (: 28:59

No, it's scary, right? The vapes,

the phone in the pocket, the, I don't know, all these, the level of disconnection. Yeah. Disassociation. It's so true. Yep.

Junie Moon (: 29:08

Well, I remember I dated this guy and he was, I don't know, in his early 40s and he had said that he was taking Viagra, Cialis, I don't know, for years, years. And then of course I found out, and I don't know if this is true or not, but somebody told me an expert that says, you know, starting at such a young age and doing it for so many years, eventually it will not really work. So,

Dawn Wiggins (: 29:33

Yeah.

Junie Moon (: 29:33

They're trying,

they're trying to figure it out. And yeah, things are changing with the pot smoking now that it's legal. I love pot, but you there's a place for it, you know?

Andrea Knoche (: 29:41

yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 29:43

Can we talk about Viagra for a minute? What are your, again, I'm here to learn. I'm here in the love lounge to learn. But why do we think about Viagra? Right? Is it,

Ozzie Osborne (: 29:49

It's a tool. It's a tool.

Laurie Gerber (: 29:52

does it disempower couples? Does it empower couples? When do the pros outweigh the cons? When do the cons outweigh the pros?

Junie Moon (: 29:59

I gotta say when I was

dating somebody who had challenges, was significantly older than me, I was really grateful. I

was really

Laurie Gerber (: 30:09

Interesting.

Junie Moon (: 30:09

grateful because I was really not satisfied, you know, and things have changed. I'm in a different place now too. That was a while ago. But seriously, I, you know, it...

certainly enhanced. he was like, I remember we were in the kitchen once and you he popped one in, he's like, getting ready. And I was like, what happens if you pop two? And he's like, let's find out, you know.

Ozzie Osborne (: 30:30

no!

Junie Moon (: 30:32

So, I mean, we played with it and we played with it. And

Ozzie Osborne (: 30:35

play with it.

Junie Moon (: 30:36

so for me, I saw it as a tool. I saw it as an enhancement, literally and figuratively. But I didn't actually know all the information that we're talking about now. So I would probably have approached it differently.

if I knew what I know now, but I was grateful at the time because I didn't know any better.

Ozzie Osborne (: 30:56

Yeah, I want to add that it's a tool if you're also, if you're confident and you do some of the self-help work on the side as well alongside it, because some men are like, this is where I'm at, I'm accepting it, I'm going to work with it, Viagra is great, it gets me hard, I stay hard and my lady is happy, right? And then there are others that are like, ugh, have to take it, right, like they make meaning of it. And then it works for a little bit and then it doesn't.

Again, it's another tool and if you use it in a way that actually is hitting on the mind, body, soul, spirit.

It works.

Andrea Knoche (: 31:35

I love it. love

Laurie Gerber (: 31:35

Got it.

Andrea Knoche (: 31:36

it. All right, guys, let's move on to our final segment, which is our legs wide open segment. This one is called bedroom innovations. So.

Dawn Wiggins (: 31:44

Mmm!

Andrea Knoche (: 31:46

We're going to dive into something a little fun and a little spicy. So we all know that intimacy can evolve and especially in midlife. And so sometimes the best moments don't even evolve an erection. So I'm going to throw out a few fill in the blank prompts and I just want your first gut response. Just one short word or short phrase. And so I'm just going to throw it out and then we'll get two from each of you. Sound good? There's no overthinking. There's no filters. We're just going to...

Ozzie Osborne (: 32:13

You're telling

us not to overthink?

Andrea Knoche (: 32:14

I know I need you on the fly just boom

boom boom.

Junie Moon (: 32:17

Spontaneous.

Andrea Knoche (: 32:19

Show me how quick you

Ozzie Osborne (: 32:19

Okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 32:20

can get it up Ozzy. Let's go. All right so here we go. Number one when penetration isn't the main event intimacy is all about

Dawn Wiggins (: 32:33

Skin to skin.

Junie Moon (: 32:34

I was gonna say that.

Andrea Knoche (: 32:35

Ooh,

love that. All right. See, you guys are so good at this. All right. One

Laurie Gerber (: 32:39

Ding ding ding.

Andrea Knoche (: 32:40

forgotten erogenous zone that deserves more attention is...

Ozzie Osborne (: 32:45

nipples.

Laurie Gerber (: 32:46

Next.

Junie Moon (: 32:47

My low back.

Andrea Knoche (: 32:49

Ooh.

Dawn Wiggins (: 32:49

I love all of

those answers.

Andrea Knoche (: 32:50

I don't

know why that reminded me of friends when she's like, seven, seven, seven, they may see that episode. Okay. Yeah. She's like, three, three, four, seven, seven. It's so good. All right. I know.

You're welcome. All right. Number three, the

Ozzie Osborne (: 32:56

Six, seven.

Laurie Gerber (: 32:58

Yes, yes, yes. You had to do more of the bit for me to remember. Thank you.

Junie Moon (: 33:05

Yeah, I don't remember. Sounds fun though.

Andrea Knoche (: 33:08

sexiest thing a partner can say in bed is.

Ozzie Osborne (: 33:13

I want you.

Andrea Knoche (: 33:14

You look hot.

Junie Moon (: 33:14

Mmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 33:14

You're so sexy. I love when I'm told I'm sexy in bed. Then I'm like, yeah. That's what I do. We're going to make an AI bot.

Ozzie Osborne (: 33:22

Yes.

Laurie Gerber (: 33:21

Can everybody just share this with one man, please? I feel like we could make the world a better place.

Junie Moon (: 33:28

God, I'm so happy to say I have this. I'm like, my God, thank you, thank you, thank you.

Laurie Gerber (: 33:31

I'm on my way.

Andrea Knoche (: 33:33

Number four, the most underrated form of foreplay is leg humping.

Laurie Gerber (: 33:40

chores.

Junie Moon (: 33:40

Kissing. Kissing.

Ozzie Osborne (: 33:41

Thank you.

Licking.

Laurie Gerber (: 33:44

of

course.

Andrea Knoche (: 33:44

Ooh,

Dawn Wiggins (: 33:45

When I say footsie,

it's like so innocent.

Andrea Knoche (: 33:46

ooh, there is that

Junie Moon (: 33:47

Ooh.

Laurie Gerber (: 33:48

You!

Andrea Knoche (: 33:50

is that's a good. We're going to have mute Laurie for a minute.

Ozzie Osborne (: 33:50

That could turn me on.

Junie Moon (: 33:51

I just am laughing at chores, so I'm like, get this stuff done.

Ozzie Osborne (: 33:55

What?

Laurie Gerber (: 33:56

turns me on every time. my, I speak

for other women. Put it in the comments, ladies.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:04

You

Ozzie Osborne (: 34:04

Yeah, Lori.

Laurie Gerber (: 34:05

Y'all these ladies, I'm not the only one.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:07

Alright, number five, good sex in midlife is really about...

Ozzie Osborne (: 34:12

connection.

Junie Moon (: 34:13

connection. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:15

Good

Laurie Gerber (: 34:16

play.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:17

for play.

Dawn Wiggins (: 34:19

I was gonna say

having enough of my own hormones.

Ozzie Osborne (: 34:27

yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:29

Yeah, that's a good one. All

Dawn Wiggins (: 34:30

Yeah.

Laurie Gerber (: 34:32

Fair.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:32

right, number six, when the lights go out, confidence looks like...

Dawn Wiggins (: 34:39

staying present in one's body, like not having to disassociate.

Ozzie Osborne (: 34:44

balls to the wall.

Andrea Knoche (: 34:48

I like balls to the walls. Yeah, it's a tough one. All right.

Junie Moon (: 34:49

I'm stumped on that one. Too much thinking on that one. I'm in the dark.

Laurie Gerber (: 34:53

What was

the prompt?

Dawn Wiggins (: 34:55

So

Ozzie Osborne (: 34:55

Really, it's time to come out.

Laurie Gerber (: 34:56

When the lights go out, what happens?

Andrea Knoche (: 34:59

what confidence looks like

Junie Moon (: 34:59

Right?

Andrea Knoche (: 35:02

when the light goes out.

Laurie Gerber (: 35:05

Yeah, no, I'll go with your, I like Dawn's answer.

Andrea Knoche (: 35:06

She's like, I got nothing.

Laurie Gerber (: 35:09

I second the motion. I was like, when the lights go out, I go to sleep? What? I don't understand. Okay.

Andrea Knoche (: 35:16

Number

seven, one toy, tool or texture that changes the game is...

Ooh, vibrator.

Dawn Wiggins (: 35:26

I

Junie Moon (: 35:26

Well,

Dawn Wiggins (: 35:26

like it.

Junie Moon (: 35:26

vibrator

Laurie Gerber (: 35:26

White

tool or texture?

Junie Moon (: 35:27

for me.

Laurie Gerber (: 35:28

my God, blindfold.

Andrea Knoche (: 35:30

I like that.

Ozzie Osborne (: 35:30

Mmm.

Dawn Wiggins (: 35:31

Hmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 35:31

That's a good answer.

Junie Moon (: 35:32

Yeah, that's hot.

Andrea Knoche (: 35:33

That's a good one.

Laurie Gerber (: 35:33

I need to not see anything.

Junie Moon (: 35:36

So

you need to be in the dark then, honey.

Laurie Gerber (: 35:39

The dark. I need the dark and I need something on my face. Yes, deprivation for me. Deprivation.

Ozzie Osborne (: 35:41

She needs to, yeah, deprivation for Lori.

Andrea Knoche (: 35:44

Okay, number eight. key to keeping

desire alive long term is communication for me.

Dawn Wiggins (: 35:51

Nervous system health.

Ozzie Osborne (: 35:53

I'm there with Dawn

Laurie Gerber (: 35:53

I think it's homeopathy. Is

it homeopathy?

Dawn Wiggins (: 35:55

But right

homeopathy, but also novelty, right? Like, like,

but physiologically, if we can't,

if we're not healthy or well or robust or whatever, right? Like you can't keep desire alive period. But then also like on the more like what you're looking for side is novelty.

Laurie Gerber (: 36:10

Also, how about communication? mean, is that too cliche? Communication?

Andrea Knoche (: 36:10

Ha

Junie Moon (: 36:10

And I would, yeah. And I was gonna

Andrea Knoche (: 36:13

And now I say communication.

Junie Moon (: 36:15

go for play, because keeping it light and joyful and childlike, just keeps that energy and creativity

Andrea Knoche (: 36:20

fun.

Junie Moon (: 36:21

flowing, in my opinion.

Ozzie Osborne (: 36:23

I'm going to add freedom.

Andrea Knoche (: 36:24

Mmm. Yes.

Dawn Wiggins (: 36:25

Mmm.

Junie Moon (: 36:25

Hmm.

Andrea Knoche (: 36:28

Yeah. No inhibitions for sure.

Laurie Gerber (: 36:26

Whoa, whoa. Is she talking

Ozzie Osborne (: 36:26

A sense of freedom allows for desire to emerge.

Laurie Gerber (: 36:30

about Polly? Because I think we need an episode about freedom. No? No, you're not talking about that. You're not freedom. Okay.

Ozzie Osborne (: 36:34

No, I'm not talking about that. It's free.

Andrea Knoche (: 36:36

Yeah. All right. Number nine.

Junie Moon (: 36:38

It's an option.

Andrea Knoche (: 36:40

The best kind of after sex connection is...

Ozzie Osborne (: 36:44

Ooh, cuddling.

Junie Moon (: 36:45

Cuddling.

Ozzie Osborne (: 36:47

And footsie,

Andrea Knoche (: 36:46

Yeah.

Ozzie Osborne (: 36:47

like Dawn says. I love playing with the toes.

Laurie Gerber (: 36:50

Chores!

Andrea Knoche (: 36:50

Laura.

Laurie Gerber (: 36:51

Chores!

Dawn Wiggins (: 36:51

Sleep?

Junie Moon (: 36:51

No chores, no

chores.

Ozzie Osborne (: 36:53

Dawn, what's that look? Dawn!

Junie Moon (: 36:57

You'll be humming around

Laurie Gerber (: 36:55

before and after.

Ozzie Osborne (: 36:57

Great job.

Junie Moon (: 36:58

the house.

Ozzie Osborne (: 36:59

Dawn,

what are you saying? I'm dying to hear.

Andrea Knoche (: 37:01

Lori

smoked a cigarette and did some laundry.

Dawn Wiggins (: 37:04

Yeah. Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 37:08

All right, the last one, the ultimate bedroom innovation every couple should try at least once is.

Junie Moon (: 37:15

Red lights.

Dawn Wiggins (: 37:15

Honesty.

Laurie Gerber (: 37:17

Honesty and red lights. Mic drop. We can't

Ozzie Osborne (: 37:19

I already there.

Laurie Gerber (: 37:21

improve. We can't improve. So good.

Andrea Knoche (: 37:23

Yeah

Dawn Wiggins (: 37:23

here

for the red light recommendation actually because you put me in a red light sauna and forget about it. It's like having sun on my butthole but like in a sauna I'm telling you

Laurie Gerber (: 37:33

Some more.

Ozzie Osborne (: 37:34

No,

Andrea Knoche (: 37:33

Ha ha!

Ozzie Osborne (: 37:35

needs to come over. have a lot of red light devices.

Andrea Knoche (: 37:37

You

Dawn Wiggins (: 37:37

put me

Junie Moon (: 37:38

And

Dawn Wiggins (: 37:38

in a red light sauna and then poop.

Junie Moon (: 37:38

everybody looks really good.

Laurie Gerber (: 37:42

Andrea,

thank you for doing these games with us. It's so fun.

Dawn Wiggins (: 37:47

It's so good.

Andrea Knoche (: 37:48

well they are, they make us think outside the box and I really like that. That's so fun. All

Junie Moon (: 37:53

Yeah.

Andrea Knoche (: 37:53

right.

Ozzie Osborne (: 37:53

They're not very hard.

Andrea Knoche (: 37:54

Yeah. So we're closing the legs on that one. So that is it for this week's episode of talking about ED and how it's changed our experience with intimacy. For those of you listening, hopefully you're checking us out on YouTube as well. There's so much hand motions and gestures that you're missing. facial stuff. mean, Lori brings it every week for us on that one.

So we would love to hear your story or your favorite bedroom innovation. What are you guys doing to keep the penis up? We'd love to know what is happening in your bedroom. We are that nosy. Yes, we are. Join us in the lounge. You can tag us at menopauselovelounge on Instagram or TikTok. And if this conversation opened your heart, made you laugh, please follow us, subscribe, share, leave a review, comment. We want to hear from you guys.

So thank you guys for joining us and you guys have a great week. Bye.

Ozzie Osborne (: 38:48

Bye.

Junie Moon (: 38:48

Bye bye.